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post #1 of 45 Old 04-07-2018, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you using a projector for gaming?

In time I’ll be getting a new display for the theater room in our new home. Currently we’re a 80% gaming, 19% movies, 1% music family.

So, with that said I have some serious reservations about getting a projector for gaming due to all of the ghosting/latency/problems I’ve heard when playing fast paced FPSs among other things.

Are those fears founded? Is anyone in here using a projector for gaming and not noticing any issues? Are you playing FPSs and the like and not noticing problems?

Looking forward to seeing what comes out of this discussion.


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post #2 of 45 Old 04-08-2018, 02:36 AM
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For gaming, the new sony 285 line (or better, 385, 675) is perfect. It has a low latency game mode and true 4K. I use my theater primarily for gaming. I'm 50% gaming, 24% music, 24% tv, 2% movies. After playing games on a 135" screen, you will never go back to a small TV or PC monitor for gaming. And 4K games looks tons better on a 4K projector than 4K movies.

The last 2 JVC projector lines also have low latency gaming modes, but those are not true 4K.

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post #3 of 45 Old 04-08-2018, 03:01 AM - Thread Starter
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For gaming, the new sony 285 line (or better, 385, 675) is perfect. It has a low latency game mode and true 4K. I use my theater primarily for gaming. I'm 50% gaming, 24% music, 24% tv, 2% movies. After playing games on a 135" screen, you will never go back to a small TV or PC monitor for gaming. And 4K games looks tons better on a 4K projector than 4K movies.



The last 2 JVC projector lines also have low latency gaming modes, but those are not true 4K.


Awesome! I’ll check out the 285.


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post #4 of 45 Old 04-09-2018, 02:24 AM
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it depends on what games are playing. if you are competitive player then i suppose you need very good latency. i quit playing FIFA for that reason on my EPSON TW6600 which btw should have pretty good response time amongst projectors, because every ms counts in fifa. And i started to play on my 144hz TN panel instead.

But other types of games are GREAT on large screen.
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post #5 of 45 Old 04-14-2018, 06:40 PM
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Looking for information and help in selecting a 4K gaming projector. I need input latency <60 ms for gaming so torn between the Epson 5040UB and the Optoma UHD60. Let me know what you think. Picture uniformity and features are way better on the Epson but it’s a pixel shifter.” What matters and what doesn't not mentioned here.
I think I want to spend no more than $2999. Is that possible?
Thanks-
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post #6 of 45 Old 04-27-2018, 02:22 PM
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I gamed on a projector for a couple of years and loved it but once I saw an OLED TV I quickly switched. I do miss the big screen, but the pop of the graphics on the TV is far superior. With the OLED you get true blacks and it really makes the whole image fantastic and you will never be able to get that with a projector. I do enjoy graphics so that was the major decision for me but again I did enjoy playing on the large screen you just have to decide what's important for you.

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post #7 of 45 Old 05-03-2018, 08:19 AM
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I have a dedicated HT room with a 1080p projector (Sony 40ES) that I sometimes move my XBoX ONe X to for gaming....but since its not 4k...I primarily play on 4k/HDR TV in bedroom.

Someday....4k/HDR projector will be something I can upgrade HT room too but thats a ways off I think.

I would much prefer playing on a 135in screen -vs- 55 but its hard to not have 4k or HDR.
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post #8 of 45 Old 05-29-2018, 02:40 PM
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From what I have read HDR doesn't translate well to projectors...it seems like the technology is just "not there yet" at the consumer level...
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post #9 of 45 Old 06-25-2018, 11:35 PM
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4k Gaming is good on projectors. HDR is limited with some projectors. Many planets and stars have to align to get the best experience. For id take 1 for 1 pixel sharpness on a 135" cinemascope screen over a 65" oled or led TV with excellent HDR. For me it's the full experience.
Just my 2 cents but

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post #10 of 45 Old 06-25-2018, 11:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hatlesschimp View Post
4k Gaming is good on projectors. HDR is limited with some projectors. Many planets and stars have to align to get the best experience. For id take 1 for 1 pixel sharpness on a 135" cinemascope screen over a 65" oled or led TV with excellent HDR. For me it's the full experience.
Just my 2 cents but
http://youtu.be/Z2bONkqohnk

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Does that projector have something like 50ms of input lag?
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post #11 of 45 Old 06-25-2018, 11:58 PM
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Does that projector have something like 50ms of input lag?
Would have to check my notes at home but it's either 40ms or 50ms from memory and the Epson 9300 has 30ms. However I was more than able to compete online with COD, for me the hi res textures had me stopping to take in all there beauty and causing me to get killed .
I think the perception of Projector gaming needs to change a touch. Yesteryear PJs of a decent image quality were slow on the motion and laggy with the user input. Also if wanting sub 24ms then best option is to go a gaming monitor. Horses for courses.

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post #12 of 45 Old 06-26-2018, 12:01 AM
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Does that projector have something like 50ms of input lag?
Some photos

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post #13 of 45 Old 06-26-2018, 02:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I’ll check it out!
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post #14 of 45 Old 06-26-2018, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Would have to check my notes at home but it's either 40ms or 50ms from memory and the Epson 9300 has 30ms. However I was more than able to compete online with COD, for me the hi res textures had me stopping to take in all there beauty and causing me to get killed .
I think the perception of Projector gaming needs to change a touch. Yesteryear PJs of a decent image quality were slow on the motion and laggy with the user input. Also if wanting sub 24ms then best option is to go a gaming monitor. Horses for courses.

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I typically agree with that, but it feels like that would be an expensive experiment if I could tell the difference. Know what I mean?

They do have some <20ms projectors, but they’re all 1080P.

The BenQ 2050A is what I was looking at to get started with.
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post #15 of 45 Old 06-26-2018, 03:05 PM
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I typically agree with that, but it feels like that would be an expensive experiment if I could tell the difference. Know what I mean?

They do have some <20ms projectors, but they’re all 1080P.

The BenQ 2050A is what I was looking at to get started with.
BenQ are good value. I had the w1080st before the Epson.

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post #16 of 45 Old 06-26-2018, 03:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
Awesome! I’ll check out the 285.
If you go with Sony or Epson, wait for a model with full 18 gbps HDMI 2.0 inputs that won't needlessly prevent you from using HDR at 4K 60hz or show banding.

All due respect to Sony true 4K projectors, I wouldn't recommend them for this reason, at all. Same for Epson 5040. HDR is a bigger reason to go with anything "4K" and without 18 gbps and the proper banding-free electronics to process it, it's a waste of money, especially with CEDIA so close. Literally only two months away.
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post #17 of 45 Old 06-26-2018, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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If you go with Sony or Epson, wait for a model with full 18 gbps HDMI 2.0 inputs that won't needlessly prevent you from using HDR at 4K 60hz or show banding.



All due respect to Sony true 4K projectors, I wouldn't recommend them for this reason, at all. Same for Epson 5040. HDR is a bigger reason to go with anything "4K" and without 18 gbps and the proper banding-free electronics to process it, it's a waste of money, especially with CEDIA so close. Literally only two months away.


So, wait just a bit before I pull the trigger on any projector at all?
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post #18 of 45 Old 06-26-2018, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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BenQ are good value. I had the w1080st before the Epson.

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Gotcha. Thanks man!
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post #19 of 45 Old 06-26-2018, 05:35 PM
 
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So, wait just a bit before I pull the trigger on any projector at all?
Absolutely.

Wait for September and see what gets announced. Sony will likely fix the 18 gbps HDMI problem as will Epson, then you can pick your poison. Either successor should have decent enough input lag and resolve the HDR banding issues at 4K60 for gaming.

If you aren't getting HDR don't bother with 4K. And in that case, just buy a cheap 1080p DLP with 16ms input lag for 500 bucks and sell it on craigslist or to a friend or give it to a family member (who is likely awed even by 1080p) when you upgrade in 2-6 months.

Now is really a terrible time to plunk down tons of cash. Especially with Europe banning lamp-based projectors in 2019 (environmentalism is finally on the same side as consumers, for once! seriously). This means virtually all projectors will have laser, including the cheapest models. Those "laser" projectors don't necessarily have wide colour gamut though, since many often are still barely passing rec 709, but at least they can do more lumens and don't dim so easily. This would be especially useful for projector manufacturers like JVC whose lamps are brutally overpriced and frankly extortionate.

The main benefit to lasers, aside from lumens and maybe WCG, becoming standard is that manufacturers will lose their expensive lamp revenue. This means big savings for JVC fans like me who recoil at the idea of spending 600 bucks a pop for a new lamp. I would never do that, I'd rather pay more up front and not worry about daily usage at all. Psychologically it might amount to the same price overall but lasers also keep their brightness more constant over time. Expensive lamps would make one feel pressured to not use their new toy, if you get my meaning. Taxi meters cause me anxiety, even when I'd prefer they take the scenic route I still balk at a timer with a dollar figure per second attached.
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post #20 of 45 Old 06-26-2018, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you using a projector for gaming?

..

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post #21 of 45 Old 06-26-2018, 10:43 PM
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What type of games are you playing? Will you be using console and or pc. I was. Looking at both the benq 2150 and 2550 and it was verified by a owner that the 2150 can play 1080p @120 for pc gaming if that's important to you. It has one hdmi version 1.4b which can get you 1080p 444 @110hz. I would assume the 2550 can also acheive this framrate at 1080p but lag is 48 MS vs 16 for the 2150. CNET says they notice a slight difference in sharpness between these projectors sitting within 5 feet. I currently have a 65 inch 4k LCD and the wow factor of 4k is negligent compared to hdr. I even play my games at 1080p 120hz hdr vs 4k hdr because of the improved response and lag time. I 2nd the notion to buy a cheap projector and wait like I plan on doing for true hdr projectors with decent input lag.
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post #22 of 45 Old 06-28-2018, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BattleAxeVR View Post
Absolutely.



Wait for September and see what gets announced. Sony will likely fix the 18 gbps HDMI problem as will Epson, then you can pick your poison. Either successor should have decent enough input lag and resolve the HDR banding issues at 4K60 for gaming.



If you aren't getting HDR don't bother with 4K. And in that case, just buy a cheap 1080p DLP with 16ms input lag for 500 bucks and sell it on craigslist or to a friend or give it to a family member (who is likely awed even by 1080p) when you upgrade in 2-6 months.



Now is really a terrible time to plunk down tons of cash. Especially with Europe banning lamp-based projectors in 2019 (environmentalism is finally on the same side as consumers, for once! seriously). This means virtually all projectors will have laser, including the cheapest models. Those "laser" projectors don't necessarily have wide colour gamut though, since many often are still barely passing rec 709, but at least they can do more lumens and don't dim so easily. This would be especially useful for projector manufacturers like JVC whose lamps are brutally overpriced and frankly extortionate.



The main benefit to lasers, aside from lumens and maybe WCG, becoming standard is that manufacturers will lose their expensive lamp revenue. This means big savings for JVC fans like me who recoil at the idea of spending 600 bucks a pop for a new lamp. I would never do that, I'd rather pay more up front and not worry about daily usage at all. Psychologically it might amount to the same price overall but lasers also keep their brightness more constant over time. Expensive lamps would make one feel pressured to not use their new toy, if you get my meaning. Taxi meters cause me anxiety, even when I'd prefer they take the scenic route I still balk at a timer with a dollar figure per second attached.


Any comments on my second post up there?
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post #23 of 45 Old 06-28-2018, 12:19 PM
 
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What type of games are you playing? Will you be using console and or pc. I was. Looking at both the benq 2150 and 2550 and it was verified by a owner that the 2150 can play 1080p @120 for pc gaming if that's important to you. It has one hdmi version 1.4b which can get you 1080p 444 @110hz. I would assume the 2550 can also acheive this framrate at 1080p but lag is 48 MS vs 16 for the 2150. CNET says they notice a slight difference in sharpness between these projectors sitting within 5 feet. I currently have a 65 inch 4k LCD and the wow factor of 4k is negligent compared to hdr. I even play my games at 1080p 120hz hdr vs 4k hdr because of the improved response and lag time. I 2nd the notion to buy a cheap projector and wait like I plan on doing for true hdr projectors with decent input lag.
BenQ doesn't have a 2150 model, don't you mean Epson? I will have to look into it, I thought all 1080p / 120hz capable projectors were the 4K variety with HDMI 2.0 (and when they have HDMI 1.4 it's usually HDMI 1.4a). I'd definitely consider an HDMI 1.4b 1080p projector if it can do 120hz.

Can you give me a link to what you're talking about? 120hz native input at 1080p isn't worth much if you can only get it with 50-80ms input lag, but 120hz + 16ms input lag would be to me one of the best gaming display there is, at least for fast action and racing games.

EDIT: Nevermind, I forgot BenQ had a 2150 model, but it's short throw. The manual lists 120hz operation but only in 1280 x 800 mode. I doubt it works at 1080p 120hz, because virtually all HDMI 1.4 DLPs have 1.4a (165Mhz max), and even if it accepts it, it's doubtful it passes the frame skipping test. You can often overclock DLPs slightly at 1080p but after 66hz or so they start skipping frames.

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post #24 of 45 Old 06-28-2018, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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BenQ doesn't have a 2150 model, don't you mean Epson? I will have to look into it, I thought all 1080p / 120hz capable projectors were the 4K variety with HDMI 2.0 (and when they have HDMI 1.4 it's usually HDMI 1.4a). I'd definitely consider an HDMI 1.4b 1080p projector if it can do 120hz.



Can you give me a link to what you're talking about? 120hz native input at 1080p isn't worth much if you can only get it with 50-80ms input lag, but 120hz + 16ms input lag would be to me one of the best gaming display there is, at least for fast action and racing games.



EDIT: Nevermind, I forgot BenQ had a 2150 model, but it's short throw. The manual lists 120hz operation but only in 1280 x 800 mode. I doubt it works at 1080p 120hz, because virtually all HDMI 1.4 DLPs have 1.4a (165Mhz max), and even if it accepts it, it's doubtful it passes the frame skipping test. You can often overclock DLPs slightly at 1080p but after 66hz or so they start skipping frames.

Aight so lemme tell you where I’m at.

I’m moving into my theater room/new house this month, and all I have now is a Panasonic 65VT50 to run right now.

The problem is that I’ll have to run a 50 foot HDMI cable (active, $$$) to make that plasma work. Hang the TV on the wall, etc.

Pain in the ass.

I would really like to get SOMETHING now.

I primarily play games in my theater. So I need a low input lag 1080p projector to tide me over. Which one is the best?

I’m thinking of pulling the trigger on a BenQ 2550A, ($1k) using it for 6 months and then upgrading. The HDMI cable I’d need for that would be 12 feet, etc. Just all around an easier setup.

In the meantime I’d get the best possible screen I can find, to prepare for my future projector that will be a huge upgrade.

Maybe something that is acoustically transparent?

Thoughts?
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post #25 of 45 Old 06-28-2018, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Friendlys View Post
What type of games are you playing? Will you be using console and or pc. I was. Looking at both the benq 2150 and 2550 and it was verified by a owner that the 2150 can play 1080p @120 for pc gaming if that's important to you. It has one hdmi version 1.4b which can get you 1080p 444 @110hz. I would assume the 2550 can also acheive this framrate at 1080p but lag is 48 MS vs 16 for the 2150. CNET says they notice a slight difference in sharpness between these projectors sitting within 5 feet. I currently have a 65 inch 4k LCD and the wow factor of 4k is negligent compared to hdr. I even play my games at 1080p 120hz hdr vs 4k hdr because of the improved response and lag time. I 2nd the notion to buy a cheap projector and wait like I plan on doing for true hdr projectors with decent input lag.
BenQ doesn't have a 2150 model, don't you mean Epson? I will have to look into it, I thought all 1080p / 120hz capable projectors were the 4K variety with HDMI 2.0 (and when they have HDMI 1.4 it's usually HDMI 1.4a). I'd definitely consider an HDMI 1.4b 1080p projector if it can do 120hz.

Can you give me a link to what you're talking about? 120hz native input at 1080p isn't worth much if you can only get it with 50-80ms input lag, but 120hz + 16ms input lag would be to me one of the best gaming display there is, at least for fast action and racing games.

EDIT: Nevermind, I forgot BenQ had a 2150 model, but it's short throw. The manual lists 120hz operation but only in 1280 x 800 mode. I doubt it works at 1080p 120hz, because virtually all HDMI 1.4 DLPs have 1.4a (165Mhz max), and even if it accepts it, it's doubtful it passes the frame skipping test. You can often overclock DLPs slightly at 1080p but after 66hz or so they start skipping frames.
My 2016 vizio p has 1 input that is hdmi 1.4. It is considered a gaming port. It is 300mhz can achieve 10bit 444 @ 1080p 120hz. The review is from the guys wife on amazon reviews. She states he plays games with a pc 1080p @120fps . I used the filter for "gaming" and the review came up on the list for the benq 2150.
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post #26 of 45 Old 06-28-2018, 02:32 PM
 
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Many TVs have 1080p 120hz at this point, that's not the point of this thread, is it?

I don't think any of the older non-4K DLP projectors do, otherwise they would have been discovered by the NVidia 3D Vision forum people (native 120hz is basically all you need for frame sequential FHD 3D if you have an IR 3D transmitter).

120hz native is basically the same as saying "3D Ready".

I would wait a couple more months to see if Epson has a 5040 replacement with 18 gbps HDMI 2 inputs, since it will have good contrast, more lumens, and a native 1080p display with possibly native 120hz support and low enough input lag to make it a good gaming projector. I don't think 50-60ms is anything to brag about, even with 120hz.

Wait for CEDIA.
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post #27 of 45 Old 06-28-2018, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Many TVs have 1080p 120hz at this point, that's not the point of this thread, is it?



I don't think any of the older non-4K DLP projectors do, otherwise they would have been discovered by the NVidia 3D Vision forum people (native 120hz is basically all you need for frame sequential FHD 3D if you have an IR 3D transmitter).



120hz native is basically the same as saying "3D Ready".



I would wait a couple more months to see if Epson has a 5040 replacement with 18 gbps HDMI 2 inputs, since it will have good contrast, more lumens, and a native 1080p display with possibly native 120hz support and low enough input lag to make it a good gaming projector. I don't think 50-60ms is anything to brag about, even with 120hz.



Wait for CEDIA.


I was thinking of getting a BenQ 2050A tide me over for about 6 months. Thoughts?

If I’m going to use the projector for primarily gaming...I should go 16:9 instead of 2:35, correct?
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post #28 of 45 Old 06-28-2018, 05:29 PM
 
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BenQ 2050A FTW

What doesn't shine through in a projector review is that DLP tech is superior for games compared to LCD, because there is zero transition times for pixels. An LCD panel can take up to 10ms to transition fully, which is over a half frame. Meaning half the frame will get blur that isn't supposed to be there. DLP is great for gaming. I'm dying to get a 120hz DLP with HDR processing but will wait for one with low enough input lag (33ms or less) to jump on it, and only if the native contrast isn't terrible. Virtually all of them are. Contrast is pretty darn important and the older 1080p DLPs are much better in this aspect than the new 4K ones. I'd avoid them until the on/off is improved which is possibly never.
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post #29 of 45 Old 06-28-2018, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BattleAxeVR View Post
BenQ 2050A FTW



What doesn't shine through in a projector review is that DLP tech is superior for games compared to LCD, because there is zero transition times for pixels. An LCD panel can take up to 10ms to transition fully, which is over a half frame. Meaning half the frame will get blur that isn't supposed to be there. DLP is great for gaming. I'm dying to get a 120hz DLP with HDR processing but will wait for one with low enough input lag (33ms or less) to jump on it, and only if the native contrast isn't terrible. Virtually all of them are. Contrast is pretty darn important and the older 1080p DLPs are much better in this aspect than the new 4K ones. I'd avoid them until the on/off is improved which is possibly never.


Is there a better option for me than the 2050A right now to tide me over? Anything that would be better for gaming?

I’m right in getting a 16:9 screen over 2:35, correct?
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post #30 of 45 Old 06-29-2018, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BattleAxeVR View Post
Many TVs have 1080p 120hz at this point, that's not the point of this thread, is it?

I don't think any of the older non-4K DLP projectors do, otherwise they would have been discovered by the NVidia 3D Vision forum people (native 120hz is basically all you need for frame sequential FHD 3D if you have an IR 3D transmitter).

120hz native is basically the same as saying "3D Ready".

I would wait a couple more months to see if Epson has a 5040 replacement with 18 gbps HDMI 2 inputs, since it will have good contrast, more lumens, and a native 1080p display with possibly native 120hz support and low enough input lag to make it a good gaming projector. I don't think 50-60ms is anything to brag about, even with 120hz.

Wait for CEDIA.
I was responding to the OP's question about hdmi 1.4 having enough bandwidth to handle 1080p 444 @120 hz. As far the Nvidia 3d vision forum, I browsed through 8 or so pages and I see no reference to a master list of tv.s, monitors or projectors that handle the above scenario. The projector first shipped Aug. 2016 which could make it 1.4b. I too was Looking for this as a holdover because instant response and supposedly handling 120fps. I wish I could respond to the amazon reviewer but they don't make it available. I've been playing on my vizio p for almost 2.5 years @ 120fps and there is no way I can revert back to 60fps gaming. I could care less about 4k except for hdmi 2.0 which obviously makes it much easier to handle higher framerates.
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