Forum Jump: 
 3191Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #26041 of 26076 Old 01-11-2019, 03:13 PM
Member
 
automata21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 16
automata21 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #26042 of 26076 Old 01-11-2019, 03:46 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 19,364
Mentioned: 322 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10204 Post(s)
Liked: 5889
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Until it doesn't . But for those of you with stable REW setups, treasure them . Otherwise, journey down the trouble-shooting road or learn to love Java . It's just annoying that every new modern PC you buy has to go through this to some extent unless you're lucky.
It's about time you pulled your weight, Stuart...
galonzo and ahblaza like this.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #26043 of 26076 Old 01-11-2019, 04:06 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
sdrucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,008
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked: 1081
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
It's about time you pulled your weight, Stuart...
It's an argument for picking up an crappy laptop at Best Buy, setting it up for REW and never updating Windows and keep REW updates at least one version behind; only updating if you absolutely want something new or a bug fixed. I guess it just takes a special kind of audacity to expect a Windows 10 HTPC to just work with REW/HDMI when it works with all my other HT-related software. LOL.

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides/Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, Image B6 screens, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 13.4.6
HAA HT1 and HT2 Certification
sdrucker is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #26044 of 26076 Old 01-11-2019, 04:41 PM
Member
 
automata21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Hard to say what might be causing that dip. It could be related to the position of the right speaker and something in the room. Or it could be a phase relationship between the right speaker and the subs. I would experiment by moving the speaker around a bit to see if there is any effect on the dip. And just to be sure it isn’t a polarity issue, try reversing the wires to the right speaker.

I reversed the wires for my right speaker and now the dip is gone. Will it effect the center imaging if I have one speaker running with reverse wires. Graph looks fine now with each of them.
automata21 is offline  
post #26045 of 26076 Old 01-11-2019, 05:05 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 19,364
Mentioned: 322 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10204 Post(s)
Liked: 5889
Quote:
Originally Posted by automata21 View Post
I reversed the wires for my right speaker and now the dip is gone. Will it effect the center imaging if I have one speaker running with reverse wires. Graph looks fine now with each of them.
Next step I would recommend is to use the REW Impulse measurement to verify that the polarity of all three front speakers is the same. The REW guide explains how to check polarity.

I would also try a listening test. Using the REW signal generator, output a sine wave test tone to both the left and right speakers (HDMI 1 and 2), sit in the MLP, and listen to the test tone. It should be exactly in the center of the sound stage.
ahblaza likes this.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #26046 of 26076 Old 01-11-2019, 10:07 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoom89 View Post
Java doesn’t allow for multi channel indidividual measurements and the same goes for Jrivers output. Wasapi output does not allow for individual channel eqs. It applies eq to the signal as a whole.
Jriver DSP is before you even get to an output device so not sure what you are referring to here. If you use Jriver then you can use its routing to hit any output channel from a stereo input. Alternatively you can use the external sweep method.
No what I mean is I use Jriver to apply the room correction eq and my output is 7.1. But the eq doesn’t apply to individual channels it goes to every single channel no matter what I select. I think the only way to get it to output to individual channels is Asio but I don’t have that option.
TheBoom89 is offline  
post #26047 of 26076 Old 01-12-2019, 12:12 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Never mind I’ve figured out how to properly configure and use FlexAsio. I now can measure and eq each channel individually.

What is the recommended method of doing a 7.1 setup? Do fronts with the sub and the rest individually or everything as a whole?
TheBoom89 is offline  
post #26048 of 26076 Old 01-12-2019, 01:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3ll3d00d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 3,443
Mentioned: 185 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2011 Post(s)
Liked: 1557
Still not really sure what you mean but it sounds like you got it sorted. For future reference, you might find http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Verifying_DSP_Studio provides some useful info.
3ll3d00d is online now  
post #26049 of 26076 Old 01-12-2019, 02:43 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
Still not really sure what you mean but it sounds like you got it sorted. For future reference, you might find http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Verifying_DSP_Studio provides some useful info.
Using Wasapi as the output for Jrivers WDM didn’t allow me to eq each channel by itself. Meaning if I were to for example add a filter that reduces 1khz by 5db for the front left channel it would apply that filter to all channels instead.

With Flexasio that seems to be corrected.

And java in REW only allowed me to measure stereo. With Flexasio I can measure each channel by itself.
TheBoom89 is offline  
post #26050 of 26076 Old 01-12-2019, 02:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3ll3d00d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 3,443
Mentioned: 185 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2011 Post(s)
Liked: 1557
EQ is per channel in Jriver and independent of the output device. If you still have problems with that and want to work out what is wrong then I recommend a thread on interact (but if you have it working to your satisfaction now then ignore me).

You can measure per channel with Java inbound to jriver though, it just means using its mixing capability to route accordingly.
3ll3d00d is online now  
post #26051 of 26076 Old 01-12-2019, 05:08 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
EQ is per channel in Jriver and independent of the output device. If you still have problems with that and want to work out what is wrong then I recommend a thread on interact (but if you have it working to your satisfaction now then ignore me).

You can measure per channel with Java inbound to jriver though, it just means using its mixing capability to route accordingly.
Yeah there was something odd going on. It’s working fine now.

No idea why I didn’t think of using Jriver to route to the different channels tho. Thanks for that.

REW is coming up with about 10 filters for each channel to correct to +-5db at 1/12th octave. Is that even feasible?

That means I’ll have about 70 filters in total, sub excluded.
TheBoom89 is offline  
post #26052 of 26076 Old 01-12-2019, 05:08 AM
Advanced Member
 
AV_mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 565
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 217 Post(s)
Liked: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by automata21 View Post
Your left & right speakers appear to be in-phase, according to the impulse responses, however the right does have a very strong reflection pulse at just under 1 foot - that is not present on the left. I wonder if this reflection is causing the dip, and inverting the speaker simply masks it on an SPL graph. In fact inverting your right response in REW and adding to your sub response gives the same effect - the dip centred at 60Hz is eliminated. I would look for the source of such a strong reflection - and try to minimise it first.

Another observation, the centre speaker actually appears to be inverted - its impulse response initially moves in the opposite direction to the left & right - have you ever had a phase warning from Audyssey?

Regards, Mike.

System: Pioneer KRP-500M, Lumagen Mini3D, Denon AVR-4520 (custom modified to allow use of >>>), miniDSP DDRC88BM, Oppo 103EU, Sky+HD DRX895, Humax HDR-FOX-T2 (x2), Apple ATV3
Bowers & Wilkins CM8 (left & right) - CMC2 (centre) - Kef HTS3001SE Surrounds, miniDSP 2x4HD, SVS SB13 Ultra, SVS SB2000 (x2)
AV_mike is offline  
post #26053 of 26076 Old 01-12-2019, 06:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3ll3d00d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 3,443
Mentioned: 185 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2011 Post(s)
Liked: 1557
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoom89 View Post
REW is coming up with about 10 filters for each channel to correct to +-5db at 1/12th octave. Is that even feasible?

That means I’ll have about 70 filters in total, sub excluded.
it would certainly be extremely tedious to enter all of those filters given the way the jriver UI works

are you attempting to use REW for full range eq? I guess you must be if you have this many different filters suggested.
3ll3d00d is online now  
post #26054 of 26076 Old 01-12-2019, 08:17 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoom89 View Post
REW is coming up with about 10 filters for each channel to correct to +-5db at 1/12th octave. Is that even feasible?

That means I’ll have about 70 filters in total, sub excluded.
it would certainly be extremely tedious to enter all of those filters given the way the jriver UI works [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

are you attempting to use REW for full range eq? I guess you must be if you have this many different filters suggested.
Yeah. About 5 hours and 100 filters later I’m done. Only to realize that I’ll have to use Jrivers mixing instead of my usual Dolby Surround for listening to all my music.

If not the eq for the rest of the channels will be ignored and instead receive the front left and right eqs. Lol.

So basically all the eq I’ve applied will only work properly with true 8 channel sources.
TheBoom89 is offline  
post #26055 of 26076 Old 01-12-2019, 10:16 AM
Member
 
FargateOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 197
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck666 View Post
Can the author of ASIO comment here in this discussion?

I am not sure that ASIO has been created by a human from EARTH. I suspect a Klingon or the Borg Queen...with a human name...
Chuck666 likes this.

My system 5.1 :ROTEL RSX-1562 /Fronts: B & W 804 D2; surround : B&W 704 and center B&W HTM4d2 /sub SVS PC 2000 / TV Samsung UN55ES8000
/BD player Cambridge CXU/ set-top (cable box) rented from cable co. PEQ by nanoAvr-DL Dirac Live between CXU and receiver
Bis Audio cables and power bar from the wall to the receiver
My room:15'4" x 11' 6" x 7'6" tv near the center of the long side wall

Last edited by FargateOne; 01-12-2019 at 10:23 AM.
FargateOne is online now  
post #26056 of 26076 Old 01-12-2019, 10:44 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
galonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: most usually, somewhere in the midwest...
Posts: 1,847
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1165 Post(s)
Liked: 1427
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
It's an argument for picking up an crappy laptop at Best Buy, setting it up for REW and never updating Windows and keep REW updates at least one version behind; only updating if you absolutely want something new or a bug fixed. I guess it just takes a special kind of audacity to expect a Windows 10 HTPC to just work with REW/HDMI when it works with all my other HT-related software. LOL.
That, or if you can find a MacBook with HDMI.

I can still, to this day (on my 2012 MBPro), run the latest version of of REW, keep OSX updated, and simply plug in the HDMI and instantly have access to all channels; no configuration required except making sure audio output is set to HDMI, which happens automatically as soon as you plug in the HDMI cord
shs1234 likes this.

Main: Denon AVR-X4200W (Atmos/DTS:X 5.1.2): Sub = HSU VTF-3 Mk5 HP, Center = Klipsch RP-160M, Fronts = Klipsch R-3650-WII (x2), Surrounds = Klipsch G12 (x2), TMs = Klipsch R-2650-C (x2)
Roku P+ >> UDP-203 (fw: 64-1221B, dual-HDMI config. ^^) >> UN78HU9000FXZA(TS01)/SEK-3500U/ZA
Setup #2: UN65JS9500FXZA (TS01) || LG LAS855M || UBD-K8500 || Chromecast Ultra || AppleTV4K || TiVo Mini

FS - UHD Digital codes (and some HD codes)
galonzo is online now  
post #26057 of 26076 Old 01-12-2019, 11:06 AM
Member
 
shs1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Central Sierra Nevada
Posts: 193
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Liked: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
That, or if you can find a MacBook with HDMI.

I can still, to this day (on my 2012 MBPro), run the latest version of of REW, keep OSX updated, and simply plug in the HDMI and instantly have access to all channels; no configuration required except making sure audio output is set to HDMI, which happens automatically as soon as you plug in the HDMI cord
Earlier in this thread the Mac users had a hard time explaining how they got REW via HDMI to work with the Mac laptops. The problem was that it just worked and didn't require at extensive procedure, so people could not remember quite what they had to do, if anything, to get it to work. On my laptop (2013 MBPro) I can either use the HDMI port or the mini display port and a mini display to HDMI cable to connect to the AVR/prepro. If the AVR is set to the right input, the desktop appears on the screen and REW sees the HDMI option. I certainly have upgraded OS since first installing REW - no problem. Now getting ARC for my Anthem to work with the used PC I bought for that purpose often is another matter.
galonzo likes this.

SONY VPL-VW385ES, Da-Lite 92" 0.9 HD progressive 16x9 screen, Apple TV 4K, Oppo UDP 203, Panasonic DP-UB820, Anthem AVM 60, D-Sonic 4000 (800x3, 400x4) for bed layer, 2 Crown XLS 1002 (225x4) for Atmos; Speakers: Polk LSiM 705s, 703 front, 4 702F/X surround, 4 Polk TL3 (Atmos), Dual Velodyne DD15 Subwoofers.
shs1234 is offline  
post #26058 of 26076 Old 01-13-2019, 07:35 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 21
How do you guys go about measuring and eqing the sub in a multichannel setup? Do you do it alone, with the fronts or with all speakers?

If the sub is crossovered at 100hz should you use a 20-200hz sweep?
TheBoom89 is offline  
post #26059 of 26076 Old 01-13-2019, 08:03 AM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 19,364
Mentioned: 322 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10204 Post(s)
Liked: 5889
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoom89 View Post
How do you guys go about measuring and eqing the sub in a multichannel setup? Do you do it alone, with the fronts or with all speakers?

If the sub is crossovered at 100hz should you use a 20-200hz sweep?
You should choose a measurement based on your objectives. Use HDMI4 to measure the sub channel by itself (it will measure 10dB higher than a mains channel). To measure mains+subs, set the main speaker to small and select HDMI1, 2 or 3).

Measure the sub by itself to help find the best spot for it in the room. Measure sub+mains to see how well they blend, especially around the crossover. I typically measure 15-300Hz and observe the measurement without smoothing. I measure with room correction turned on, because that is what I hear. And if you plan on using the REW EQ tool to develop PEQ filters for the sub channel, measure the sub by itself with room correction turned off. Apply the PEQ filters, and then run automated room correction with the filters in place.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #26060 of 26076 Old 01-13-2019, 08:12 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 8,979
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2066 Post(s)
Liked: 1649
If your primary use is movies, adjust xo with sub(s) and center channel. If music, sub(s) and left and right.
galonzo likes this.

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
Welcome to AVS - Get out while you still can!
Don't guess, measure: http://afterconvert.com/forum/91-au...l#post22789786
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #26061 of 26076 Old 01-13-2019, 09:41 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Thanks for the replies. I’ve eqed the sub with the fronts. I should match the subs phase accordingly as well I guess?

Im not using Flexasio with REW as there seems to be a couple of bugs so I’m using Java with Jrivers mixing to measure. Would the result be the same as choosing HDMI 4 with ASIO?

As for applying peq first then room correction, is there a reason to do that? Accueq does next to nothing anyway so I’ve just left it on before doing all the peqs.
TheBoom89 is offline  
post #26062 of 26076 Old 01-13-2019, 09:49 AM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 19,364
Mentioned: 322 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10204 Post(s)
Liked: 5889
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoom89 View Post
Thanks for the replies. I’ve eqed the sub with the fronts. I should match the subs phase accordingly as well I guess?

Im not using Flexasio with REW as there seems to be a couple of bugs so I’m using Java with Jrivers mixing to measure. Would the result be the same as choosing HDMI 4 with ASIO?

As for applying peq first then room correction, is there a reason to do that? Accueq does next to nothing anyway so I’ve just left it on before doing all the peqs.
I made my recommendation as to the correct approach. Are you having difficulty using ASIO4All?
AustinJerry is online now  
post #26063 of 26076 Old 01-13-2019, 10:14 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoom89 View Post
Thanks for the replies. I’ve eqed the sub with the fronts. I should match the subs phase accordingly as well I guess?

Im not using Flexasio with REW as there seems to be a couple of bugs so I’m using Java with Jrivers mixing to measure. Would the result be the same as choosing HDMI 4 with ASIO?

As for applying peq first then room correction, is there a reason to do that? Accueq does next to nothing anyway so I’ve just left it on before doing all the peqs.
I made my recommendation as to the correct approach. Are you having difficulty using ASIO4All?
Don’t have that option. Nvidia GPUs (drivers) stopped working with Asio4all over a year ago.
TheBoom89 is offline  
post #26064 of 26076 Old 01-13-2019, 12:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3ll3d00d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 3,443
Mentioned: 185 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2011 Post(s)
Liked: 1557
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoom89 View Post

Im not using Flexasio with REW as there seems to be a couple of bugs so I’m using Java with Jrivers mixing to measure. Would the result be the same as choosing HDMI 4 with ASIO?
.
Move the input to the subwoofer in Jriver using the first peq block and put that before room correction. This is the same as outputting on hdmi4.
ahblaza likes this.
3ll3d00d is online now  
post #26065 of 26076 Old 01-16-2019, 08:10 PM
Senior Member
 
welldun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 441
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Hello,

Question about the noise floor for the Waterfall Graph when using the Umik-1 in Z weight and Slow;

The noise floor for the room reads around 55db on the REW SPL meter with Umik-1 set to Z weight. However, if I select C weight on the same REW SPL meter using the Umik-1, the reading is about 10db lower. So which value should I use on the Waterfall Graphs to indicate the noise floor? I would think it should be the 55db since that is what the Umik-1 displays when set to Z weight, but I don't know if the Waterfall Graph is adjusted automatically to reflect a Z weighted reading?

With the default axis range for the waterfall set at 45db on the low end, there appears to be a lot of ringing. However, if I adjust the axis to 55db, the graph looks a lot cleaner with less ringing.

HT Room:18'x13'x7.5' with 2 rows of seating. Nvidia Shield (2017), SONY UBP-X800 4K UHD Blu-ray player.
Elite Screens Edge Free Aeon Series 100 inch Cinewhite Screen & Epson 5040UB Projector.
Pioneer SC-99 & Audiosource AD1002 for Atmos & DTS:X 7.2.4
Andrew Jones Pioneer Elite SP-EFS73 Mains, SP-EC73 Center, SP-EBS73-LR Rear Surrounds, SP-BS41-LR Side Surrounds & Dual SVS SB12-NSD Subs with MiniDSP 2x4 Tuned with REW and MSO.
welldun is offline  
post #26066 of 26076 Old 01-16-2019, 09:23 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 19,364
Mentioned: 322 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10204 Post(s)
Liked: 5889
Quote:
Originally Posted by welldun View Post
Hello,

Question about the noise floor for the Waterfall Graph when using the Umik-1 in Z weight and Slow;

The noise floor for the room reads around 55db on the REW SPL meter with Umik-1 set to Z weight. However, if I select C weight on the same REW SPL meter using the Umik-1, the reading is about 10db lower. So which value should I use on the Waterfall Graphs to indicate the noise floor? I would think it should be the 55db since that is what the Umik-1 displays when set to Z weight, but I don't know if the Waterfall Graph is adjusted automatically to reflect a Z weighted reading?

With the default axis range for the waterfall set at 45db on the low end, there appears to be a lot of ringing. However, if I adjust the axis to 55db, the graph looks a lot cleaner with less ringing.
As specified on p47 of the guide, the mic should be configured for "Slow" and "C-weighting". To determine the lower limit for the Waterfall graph, click on the Spectrogram tab, and click "Generate". On the right-hand side of the graph window, there is a vertical bar that shows the upper and lower limits of the measurement (e.g. 50-90dB). Use the lower limit to set the lower limit on the Waterfall graph, and select 450ms as the "Time Range" for the graph.

When interpreting the Waterfall, focus on the top of the graph, look for "ridges" of tightly-spaced lines that originate at the top and extend downwards for more than 20dB. The ridges that persist beyond 20dB are indications of bass resonance. Many waterfalls have noise at the bottom, but as long as the noise is not associated with ridges extending all the way to the top, there should be no concern. And bass ringing under 40Hz is more common, and very difficult to address.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #26067 of 26076 Old 01-16-2019, 10:42 PM
Senior Member
 
welldun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 441
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
As specified on p47 of the guide, the mic should be configured for "Slow" and "C-weighting". To determine the lower limit for the Waterfall graph, click on the Spectrogram tab, and click "Generate". On the right-hand side of the graph window, there is a vertical bar that shows the upper and lower limits of the measurement (e.g. 50-90dB). Use the lower limit to set the lower limit on the Waterfall graph, and select 450ms as the "Time Range" for the graph.

When interpreting the Waterfall, focus on the top of the graph, look for "ridges" of tightly-spaced lines that originate at the top and extend downwards for more than 20dB. The ridges that persist beyond 20dB are indications of bass resonance. Many waterfalls have noise at the bottom, but as long as the noise is not associated with ridges extending all the way to the top, there should be no concern. And bass ringing under 40Hz is more common, and very difficult to address.
Thanks for the reply Jerry,

Just for my own edification, can you help me clear up this bit...
step number 19 on page 40 of the current version manual says to select "Mic or Z weighted" and then locate the calibration file that came with the Umik-1. Then on page 47, it says to skip this part (mic calibration) if we have a calibration file with sensitivity parameters (my Umik-1 came with the file from Cross-spectrum). I do see on page 47 where it says to set the SPL Meter to C weighted Slow, but I thought that was referring to the standalone SPL meter that is required to do the calibration of the Umik-1. That's why I am confused.

So if I'm understanding things correctly, the instructions to set the mic to z weight is only for the calibration file, but when we actually use the mic with REW, we should use the SPL Meter function with the settings set to C weight and Slow, despite the calibration file being for Z weight. Is that correct?

HT Room:18'x13'x7.5' with 2 rows of seating. Nvidia Shield (2017), SONY UBP-X800 4K UHD Blu-ray player.
Elite Screens Edge Free Aeon Series 100 inch Cinewhite Screen & Epson 5040UB Projector.
Pioneer SC-99 & Audiosource AD1002 for Atmos & DTS:X 7.2.4
Andrew Jones Pioneer Elite SP-EFS73 Mains, SP-EC73 Center, SP-EBS73-LR Rear Surrounds, SP-BS41-LR Side Surrounds & Dual SVS SB12-NSD Subs with MiniDSP 2x4 Tuned with REW and MSO.

Last edited by welldun; 01-16-2019 at 10:45 PM.
welldun is offline  
post #26068 of 26076 Old Yesterday, 05:09 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by welldun View Post



So if I'm understanding things correctly, the instructions to set the mic to z weight is only for the calibration file, but when we actually use the mic with REW, we should use the SPL Meter function with the settings set to C weight and Slow, despite the calibration file being for Z weight. Is that correct?
If that is what we're supposed to do it's not in the directions. Now I'm confused as well because I read through the directions several times and it definitely says to skip all that if we have a calibration file with a sensitivity parameter.
ctsv510 is online now  
post #26069 of 26076 Old Yesterday, 08:06 AM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 19,364
Mentioned: 322 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10204 Post(s)
Liked: 5889
I apologize to both of you for providing the wrong advice in my original post. As shown in the attached screenshot, the correct setting when using the UMIK-1 is Z-weighting. The correct setting for using an SPL meter is C-weighting (the RS SPL has only A and C-weighting). And, of course, when using a mic calibration file, a manual mic calibration is unnecessary. If you are interested in understanding the difference among the three weightings, this link provides a good explanation:

http://www.cirrusresearch.co.uk/blo...cy-weightings/
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Z-weighting.PNG
Views:	15
Size:	10.2 KB
ID:	2512044  
welldun and SteveC356 like this.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #26070 of 26076 Old Yesterday, 01:26 PM
Senior Member
 
welldun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 441
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I apologize to both of you for providing the wrong advice in my original post. As shown in the attached screenshot, the correct setting when using the UMIK-1 is Z-weighting. The correct setting for using an SPL meter is C-weighting (the RS SPL has only A and C-weighting). And, of course, when using a mic calibration file, a manual mic calibration is unnecessary. If you are interested in understanding the difference among the three weightings, this link provides a good explanation:

http://www.cirrusresearch.co.uk/blo...cy-weightings/
Thanks for the clarification, much appreciated! I'm learning all of the nuances of audio calibration and interpretation of the REW results. I'd love to share some graphs and files at some point so you and the others here could help me understand these things better, but before I do, maybe you can tell me which measurements would be worth sharing, as it is easy to get carried away measuring things with REW. As you can see in my signature, I have the miniDSP and I've used MSO in the past (albeit without really understanding how things worked). Now that I've read a few more threads about time aligning subs first and then aligning them with the mains, is when I'm truly beginning to understand these measurements and processes a bit more. I'd love to continue to learn enough that one day I too could help others get the most out of there gear.

HT Room:18'x13'x7.5' with 2 rows of seating. Nvidia Shield (2017), SONY UBP-X800 4K UHD Blu-ray player.
Elite Screens Edge Free Aeon Series 100 inch Cinewhite Screen & Epson 5040UB Projector.
Pioneer SC-99 & Audiosource AD1002 for Atmos & DTS:X 7.2.4
Andrew Jones Pioneer Elite SP-EFS73 Mains, SP-EC73 Center, SP-EBS73-LR Rear Surrounds, SP-BS41-LR Side Surrounds & Dual SVS SB12-NSD Subs with MiniDSP 2x4 Tuned with REW and MSO.

Last edited by welldun; Yesterday at 03:22 PM.
welldun is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Audio Theory, Setup, and Chat

Tags
Dayton , Dayton Audio , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off