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post #451 of 474 Old 11-09-2018, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, i think i have arrived at the final setting

Mounted both BK’s under my left seat today. This is the best placement yet!

During VS measurement it was not conclusive doing 20hz sine waves, as the in phase/out of phase varied over the bandwidth, some frequencies, espesially in the sub-20hz are was better out of phase, and worse above. So kind of like two different subs.

So i used sweeps instead, and here you can see how i varies. Also a steady tone has time to build up "the rocking chair" effect, while with real content the frequencies varies all the time. But it was easy to feel that the in phase setting was best with real content.
The numbers are not quite the same on MA’s vs BK’s in pic, but the point is the shape of the curve and how it changes. Title says what is used, and note the 3 numbers i always use. In phase gives highest Z-axis, and also feel most effective(i turned off X-axis to make it easier to see).



Look at the last pic; out of phase, and how the 20hz Y-axis shine. Not so much lower and higher

But everything improved with this mounting. I don’t hear the BK’s work that much anymore, as they are under the seat(more isolated), they shakes the armrests, footrests and seat in general more than the MA’s(which lift you, but not as much shake). More immersive, if you will.
They really both have there pros and cons, and none of them can do what the other can, so together they really complete the experience. The MA’s have the wobble effect sub-10hz(and luckily the BK’s in the front doesn’t affect that, even in phase), while the BK’s has the violent shake between 10 to 25-30 hz(and they work more freely with the suspended front/isolators). With two BK’s pr seat you gain headroom, and don’t have to drive each so hard= even less noise. And they are both very impressive in what they can do

On top of that the TR from the NF’s and "down-to-5hz" FR and PV of the FF just makes it sooo cool watching a movie.

Just did a quick test with race scene in RP1 and the attack scene in JA, and i was just smiling
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post #452 of 474 Old 11-09-2018, 10:33 AM
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Well darn on the having to send one MA back for repair, but MR Crowson will fix you up, he sure did for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Ok, i think i have arrived at the final setting

Mounted both BK’s under my left seat today. This is the best placement yet!

During VS measurement it was not conclusive doing 20hz sine waves, as the in phase/out of phase varied over the bandwidth, some frequencies, espesially in the sub-20hz are was better out of phase, and worse above. So kind of like two different subs.

So i used sweeps instead, and here you can see how i varies. Also a steady tone has time to build up "the rocking chair" effect, while with real content the frequencies varies all the time. But it was easy to feel that the in phase setting was best with real content.
The numbers are not quite the same on MA’s vs BK’s in pic, but the point is the shape of the curve and how it changes. Title says what is used, and note the 3 numbers i always use. In phase gives highest Z-axis, and also feel most effective(i turned off X-axis to make it easier to see).
Nice on the sweeps to show what they are doing across the range and interaction and phase with each other. I was gonna mention that at one point instead of just 20hz or specific frequencies, but figured you probably new what was going on across the range as well. But I was thinking the white noise 0-50hz, but a sweep is great, heck maybe even better than the white noise.


Quote:
But everything improved with this mounting. I don’t hear the BK’s work that much anymore, as they are under the seat(more isolated), they shakes the armrests, footrests and seat in general more than the MA’s(which lift you, but not as much shake). More immersive, if you will.
They really both have there pros and cons, and none of them can do what the other can, so together they really complete the experience. The MA’s have the wobble effect sub-10hz(and luckily the BK’s in the front doesn’t affect that, even in phase), while the BK’s has the violent shake between 10 to 25-30 hz(and they work more freely with the suspended front/isolators). With two BK’s pr seat you gain headroom, and don’t have to drive each so hard= even less noise. And they are both very impressive in what they can do

On top of that the TR from the NF’s and "down-to-5hz" FR and PV of the FF just makes it sooo cool watching a movie.

Just did a quick test with race scene in RP1 and the attack scene in JA, and i was just smiling
^^^ Dead on summary here Nalleh! ..pretty much my feelings on the two exactly. And yep like you say, the combo of the NF's and FF (down to 5hz for FR, fullness, weight and TR) + what the MAs + BK LFE's all bring together makes movie watching just so cool!! It brings realism to spectacular levels when they are all working together as one.

Yes I totally agree, RP1 and JA are just so good with the combo. So many of them are really, but these two are most definitely at the top for that OMG experience!

I've been having the same kind of experiences with the Potter series lately that I'm making my way though (I'm almost to the Deathly Hallows 1 and 2). With this combo, especially when I can watch some of them during the day and listen a little louder around -12.5mv or so, it's almost hard to describe. It's like I'm really in their world experiencing it all for real a lot of times, especially with the BEQ. Some of the bass effects combined with the immersive mixes can be pretty startling and almost scary in such a cool kind of way. Some things feel ultra powerful and deep with TR, weight and fullness from the way all these components works together, plus all the nuances and subtleties and everything in between to make up some pretty extreme realism and connection to what's unfolding on the screen. Takes movie watching to a whole new level IMO!

I can only image the experience you have now with the over the top Atmos setup you have, Congrats man!!! It's so refreshing to see someone on these threads so open to possibilities and not limit themselves to try to get the best experience possible! You are the very definition of this and I love it. Its inspiring. I've tried to do the same with my setup over the last years.
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post #453 of 474 Old 11-10-2018, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, the Harry Potter movies in 4K and DTS:X has been awesome, and some of the best DTS:X demo tracks of them all, even compared to Atmos. I think i have two of them left to watch, nr 3 and 4 so i have something to look forward to still

Right back at you, i have been very inspired by your journey and helpful tips along the way. You really don’t do things halfway, and don’t mind sharing about it either. Very cool, and i apriciate it a lot
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post #454 of 474 Old 01-09-2019, 07:52 AM
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I really hate you guys!
Look what you made me do!!!
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post #455 of 474 Old 01-09-2019, 11:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I really hate you guys!
Look what you made me do!!!
WOW, 16 of them !! That should make a difference Well done. Do you have a thread/will you do a thread about this?

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post #456 of 474 Old 01-10-2019, 01:00 AM
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I think that I will create a thread, but I probably won't have time to starte the build for the next couple of months.
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post #457 of 474 Old 01-10-2019, 06:57 AM
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My plan is to build 4 cabinets with two GT-X1200 in each, driven by two NX3000D (1500W per cabinet). These are to replace my 4 Jamo THX One subs at the front and back of the room. The Jamo's are ported and quite large. It would therefore be possible to make the cabinets around 4,3ft^3 (120 liter). Would this be a good match for two GT-X1200 or is smaller better?
The remaining 8 GT-X1200 are to be used for near field behind my seats.
What did you use for filling the cabinets and how much did you use?
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post #458 of 474 Old 01-10-2019, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eeyoreDK View Post
My plan is to build 4 cabinets with two GT-X1200 in each, driven by two NX3000D (1500W per cabinet). These are to replace my 4 Jamo THX One subs at the front and back of the room. The Jamo's are ported and quite large. It would therefore be possible to make the cabinets around 4,3ft^3 (120 liter). Would this be a good match for two GT-X1200 or is smaller better?
The remaining 8 GT-X1200 are to be used for near field behind my seats.
What did you use for filling the cabinets and how much did you use?
Nice, looks like a awsome place to enjoy movies

Sure, you can do it the way you planned it, it will work very well.

But as i found out, it is better to have 8 JBL’s in 1ft3 boxes, than 4 JBL’s in 2ft3 boxes, if you have EQ and can flatten the response:

http://afterconvert.com/forum/155-d...bestbuy-5.html

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post #459 of 474 Old 01-11-2019, 08:55 AM
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Thanks Nalleh, it is quiet nice and hopefully it will be even better when it is done.

Thanks for the tip regarding smaller boxes, it makes sense. I will build 4 boxes, each 2 ft^3 volumen, with two drivers and 1500W per box. That would allow me to almost use the full 1500W without breaking 15mm excursion.

I already use DSP for my 4 THX subs and my in room response is very close to flat between 20 and 250Hz (+/- 2,5 dB peak to peak). Unfortunately due to the ported design, I have to roll off the subs below 20Hz to avoid damaging them and the SR7010 does crossover at 250Hz.

The attached pictures shows the 4 individual subs measured from Main Listening Position (MLP). All subs without correction and all subs after MSO optimization. My other two listening positions are equally flat. Also attached is the predicted response from MSO. The MSO deviation below 20Hz was because I ended up using another filter in the EQ.
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post #460 of 474 Old 01-12-2019, 01:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Nalleh, it is quiet nice and hopefully it will be even better when it is done.

Thanks for the tip regarding smaller boxes, it makes sense. I will build 4 boxes, each 2 ft^3 volumen, with two drivers and 1500W per box. That would allow me to almost use the full 1500W without breaking 15mm excursion.

I already use DSP for my 4 THX subs and my in room response is very close to flat between 20 and 250Hz (+/- 2,5 dB peak to peak). Unfortunately due to the ported design, I have to roll off the subs below 20Hz to avoid damaging them and the SR7010 does crossover at 250Hz.

The attached pictures shows the 4 individual subs measured from Main Listening Position (MLP). All subs without correction and all subs after MSO optimization. My other two listening positions are equally flat. Also attached is the predicted response from MSO. The MSO deviation below 20Hz was because I ended up using another filter in the EQ.
If you plan to have just two in each box anyway, you might consider building them 4.3ft3 just to fill out the hole you made for them, and to gain some low end. They are still small

Wow, nice job on the MSO on your subs! I have been looking at trying MSO, but it just seems sooo complicated to do. I’ve read the guide, but my head keeps spinning,LOL.

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post #461 of 474 Old 01-12-2019, 02:38 AM
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I need to keep the width and height the same as the THX subs, as they are "pedestals" for the front left and right speaker and also to fit the holes in the baffle-wall as you mention. So it will not be possible to mount more than two speakers in each box.

The depth can be varied from needed speaker installation depth to 420mm allowing for an internal volumen of excatly 4ft^3.

If I try to model 2 vs 4 ft^3 in Winisd, I will get a small boost of 1,2 dB @10-35Hz, but will reach Xmax @730W in the 4ft^3 box. In the 2ft^3 box I can use 1350W before reaching Xmax and will get a boost of 3-4dB @50Hz and above.

I don't really know which of the above is the best option. 4 of these boxes would easily reach reference level 115 dB at 20Hz and above no matter 2 or 4ft^3. If I am going to use DSP to raise the level below 20Hz it would probably be good not to have maxed out the AMP and also benefit from the small boost in low frequency for the 4ft^3 box. But since the Xmas is already reached, I might end up damaging the speakers.

Regarding MSO, just do it! It might seem like a huge task at first, but after a few trial and errors it is not that bad. Seeing what you already have done, I am confident that you will have no problems with it.
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post #462 of 474 Old 01-12-2019, 03:57 AM - Thread Starter
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^^ Seems like you have a firm grasp of what you are doing, so i leave it up to you to decide I think either way will give good results. I have 4x JBL on each channel of NU6K. So that would be the same as you having 2x JBL on each channel of NX3K.

And i pound on them like crazy, with Low shelf to boot, and they have no problem taking it.

BTW: i see you got the GTX model= EU model. Are you from Denmark?

BTW2: i used Poly pillows from Jysk(750 grams each). 4 in each box.

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post #463 of 474 Old 01-12-2019, 04:40 AM
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Yes, I am from Denmark, but bought the speakers in Sweden on sale (390 SEK). Far below half price compared to Denmark.

Great, I was hoping that you had used some filling from IKEA or Jysk, since you are from Norway . Makes it easy to find.

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post #464 of 474 Old 01-12-2019, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Cool, i was also buying from sweden (BRL.se) at the same price. I noticed they had the same 50% off discount both before and after new year.

There was also a sale on them here in Norway at the same time =366nkr, even cheaper, from Ljudia.no (they are also in Sweden).

I had 12 of them in my cart, as i was contemplating re-arranging my setup by moving the 4x SI18" nearfield, and building two new towers farfield with 12x12 JBL in each, but hey: it’s madness......

But cheap thou......

PS: straight up 366nkr amounts to ~$42, so even though that is a bit more than you yanks with $29 price, if i order from US, the shipping and taxes will still make them more expensive, and longer time to ship.

And compared to anything else available here, it it still the same incredible bargain as for you in the US.

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post #465 of 474 Old 01-12-2019, 07:03 AM
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Madness is what keeps us going you should have bought them
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post #466 of 474 Old 01-12-2019, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeea... madness was probably 4 steps ago.... i think i am good



(Soon to be 4x BK’s)

And you will definitely notice a upgrade in your setup when all is done and MSO’ed. Thrust me
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post #467 of 474 Old 01-12-2019, 08:25 AM
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Yes, I am sure of that. Your setup is just insane

I plan on building two cabinets with 4 speakers each to place behind my seats for near field and drive them with a NX6000D (2x3000W 4ohm).

My seats can recline at an pretty steep angle, so the cabinets can not be more than 35cm tall. Do you think that I will loose much tactile response by not having the NF subs at chest height?
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post #468 of 474 Old 01-12-2019, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I am sure of that. Your setup is just insane

I plan on building two cabinets with 4 speakers each to place behind my seats for near field and drive them with a NX6000D (2x3000W 4ohm).

My seats can recline at an pretty steep angle, so the cabinets can not be more than 35cm tall. Do you think that I will loose much tactile response by not having the NF subs at chest height?
That would work fine. I considered just building square boxes too, but pedantic as i am, i took some measurements of my recliner both upright and reclined, and found the best angle to fit both, so as to optimize how close the drivers would be. A angled box is more work for sure, but i had the time and opportunity, so i went for it.

With 35cm height i assume you mean a 1x4 setup pr box, instead of my 2x2 setup, so i guess your setup will be fine with a square box. I started with a 1x2 square box setup, and it worked just fine, even if the driver are down at the floor

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post #469 of 474 Old 01-12-2019, 08:54 AM
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Yes, they will be 1x4 to fit under the reclined seat. Thanks for the information.
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post #470 of 474 Old 01-13-2019, 03:44 AM
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Too many possibilities. Now I am thinking about building a near field subwoofer seat riser for the back row
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post #471 of 474 Old 01-13-2019, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eeyoreDK View Post
Too many possibilities. Now I am thinking about building a near field subwoofer seat riser for the back row
Sure, if you need a riser for the back row anyway, why not

Having a riser/plattform under the MLP with 8-16 JBL firing up would be awsome. Probably insane TR

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post #472 of 474 Old 01-15-2019, 04:13 AM
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After a quick check, it seems possible to create a 2 level riser with a 12" placed between each of the 4 seats in the back row (movie theater style seats) and and one directly under each of the 3 seats (recliners) in the front row. The last two can be place behind and between the 3 front seats in the walk space with a protective perforated plate over them. All 8 12" firing upwards and sharing the same riser should create some nice TR. I get all warm and fuzzy inside thinking about building it
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Last edited by eeyoreDK; 01-15-2019 at 08:37 AM.
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post #473 of 474 Old 01-15-2019, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^ go for it. It should be insane

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4x SI-HT18v2 in 2x DO Sonos farfield- 12x12" JBL GTX1200 nearfields - 4x Crowson MA's - 2x BK-LFE - 5x NU6K - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox One X - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
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post #474 of 474 Old 01-15-2019, 07:13 PM
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keep buying receivers, your goal should be 24.4.12
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