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post #31 of 116 Old 06-19-2017, 09:03 AM
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Alex vs Google Home, who will win ?
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post #32 of 116 Old 06-19-2017, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by andrewlu View Post
Alex vs Google Home, who will win ?
Just got Echo Dot yesterday, will be grabbing Google Home next week.

I'm already sold on asking for music by voice.

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post #33 of 116 Old 06-20-2017, 01:51 PM
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Now links to SiriusXM as well!! Alexa, play Howard Stern...
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post #34 of 116 Old 07-01-2017, 12:58 PM
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The well publicised case last year between Apple and the FBI regarding access to the San Berdino bombers Iphone shows that the security services do not have automatic easy and routine access to private technology. They needed to obtain a court order to compel Apple to help them unblock the phone, which they dropped in the end. Intelligence services still have to work within a legal framework otherwise they could be breaking the law themselves regardless of their technical capability.
The sad part is our government doesn't always follow the law and there are many cases where they did not get warrants so I am sorry if I do not trust the government keeping there nose out of our business. Anyone that uses Alexa or Cortona or Siri run the chance of ether getting spied on or there searches being stored by the NSA who in fact stores tons and tons of data! This is why they needed a monster server farm that was built in Utah. I like technology but let's face it we do not need technology in everything it just makes us lazier and more complacent and blindly trusting technology till it comes back to bite us! Convenience should never take a back seat to privacy! No one should accept or put up with there government spying on them even if you can say you have nothing to hide, that is totally not the point. The government is supposed to protect our rights not invade them.

The FBI is corrupt and can not be trusted and Apple knew that if they made a master key for the FBI that it would go viral and end up in every law enforcement departments hands. Sure there would be cases where there is a legitimate reason for law enforcement to gain access to a phone. But there are also many other cases where officers did not have a valid reason and demanded access to something that was none of there business. There are far to many cases where officers got pissed off or where harassing someone and they accessed information on people and or forced them to unlock there phones because they demanded it! So Apple knew that once the FBI had it and it was given to every other law enforcement agency it would only be a matter of time before hackers got into there networks and stole the master key. And Apple would have destroyed the security to all there phones the key would work. In my honest opinion Apple was right to say no to the FBI and in the end the FBI hired a hacker to break into the phone and you know they paid him good money to tell them how to break into other phones!
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post #35 of 116 Old 07-20-2017, 08:27 PM
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So back to the topic at hand... has anyone heard any update on this? Maybe @jdsmoothie ? I mean we're quickly approaching Q4 for something that we were supposed to have Q1. It's been about 9 months since Denon even mentioned this anywhere publically that I can see. Starting to look like vaporware unfortunately...
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post #36 of 116 Old 07-20-2017, 08:32 PM
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post #37 of 116 Old 07-22-2017, 04:47 PM
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I'm hoping this feature will get pushed out to the x300 series via firmware update as well since I'll be picking up a discounted 4300 when the 4400 comes out.
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post #38 of 116 Old 07-24-2017, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmontesea View Post
That only mentions the avrs not the speakers as far as I can see. Unless the receiver is now a requirement?
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post #39 of 116 Old 07-24-2017, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by dman2306 View Post
That only mentions the avrs not the speakers as far as I can see. Unless the receiver is now a requirement?
Don't the speakers already integrate with an Echo/Echo Dot? Or are you talking about built-in.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1391...rs-or-soundbar
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post #40 of 116 Old 07-24-2017, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalsonicGTR View Post
Don't the speakers already integrate with an Echo/Echo Dot? Or are you talking about built-in.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1391...rs-or-soundbar
It says it was coming q1 2017. We're still waiting...
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post #41 of 116 Old 07-26-2017, 08:47 AM
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I must say I agree that Alexa and an 'always on' listening device poses security concerns for me. Just because 'I'm doing nothing wrong anyways' doesn't mean I want a device that listens for EVERY keyword I say for marketing purposes.

Imagine if you happen to mention 'Dildo' or something in the confines of your home, and are subsequently bombarded on your PC (which your family uses) with advertisements for a large black ****?

In another scenario, perhaps you're discussing your cancer diagnoses, and your insurance premiums magically increase?

Lastly, whether or not you realize it, your data is VALUABLE. This is why traditionally consumer research companies have brought in people from their target demographic and paid them top dollar for their time (I know - I've done it). Now you're basically giving it away for free so you can be able to what? Make a shopping list without using a pen?

Alexa will be staying away from my X4300 thank you very much.
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post #42 of 116 Old 07-27-2017, 10:30 AM
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I have never needed voice control, guess I'm getting old! My x-box 1s has it, have never attempted to use it.
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post #43 of 116 Old 07-28-2017, 04:23 PM
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If this feature can not truly be disabled I will not be buying any model with Alexa or anything like it!

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post #44 of 116 Old 07-30-2017, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by GlocksRock View Post
I'm hoping this feature will get pushed out to the x300 series via firmware update as well since I'll be picking up a discounted 4300 when the 4400 comes out.
As noted by the article, the update should be released to HEOS enabled AVRs which would include the X4300H.
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post #45 of 116 Old 07-30-2017, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Moritz View Post
If this feature can not truly be disabled I will not be buying any model with Alexa or anything like it!
Amazon listening in for marketing can be disabled from within the Alexa app. Of course some people will believe that Amazon/FBI/CIA/NSA/Moonies and whomever are always listening regardless. Nothing could ever change them of that view.

For the record Amazon does not keep day to day conversations. Anything it has recorded can easily be deleted from within your Amazon account.

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post #46 of 116 Old 08-04-2017, 02:53 PM
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Siri, Google, and Alexa: Waiting for Godot

I'm still waiting for a "voice recognition" system that 1) recognizes my statement correctly 100% of the time; 2) understands contextual nuances such as "there" vs. "their" or "hear" and "here" or even better, "two" vs. "to" vs. "too"; and 3) has an AI smarter than a 5-year old. So far, I'm very disappointed. Unless I want Siri or Google to open a web page for me (which is what they all do when they can't answer a simple question like what is today's weather forecast), I've been underwhelmed by everything on the market. If I still have to pick up the device and do something manually, then it's useless feature. The only positive thing about Alexa is it has a wider pre-programmed repertoire, but they all suffer from the same weaknesses: lack of contextual comprehension, lack of discerning when someone is directing attention to them (it hears its catch phrase) vs. talking about them in the 3rd person, and frequently inept voice recognition accuracy.

I'm starting to wonder if useful voice recognition is like Waiting for Godot - a pipe dream (at least in my lifetime).

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post #47 of 116 Old 08-13-2017, 07:49 PM
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I think you guys are way off about the "adding a mic" to HEOS speakers. I believe the Alexa integration they are talking about will be more like, "Alexa, play my pandora classic rock station in my bedroom, x4300, bedroom, etc." You can currently do quite a bit with the Harmony Hub, but not specific commands like the example above.

Just got he X4300 and am very happy with it so far. I listen to pandora mostly and the app is ok. The version of the Pandora software they are using is outdated. I'm a paying member and have practically unlimited skips, but the HEOS app restricts me to the handful and hour, which means they are using the old software.
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post #48 of 116 Old 08-14-2017, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sutton8 View Post
Amazon listening in for marketing can be disabled from within the Alexa app.
Fine. However, is it enabled by default? (my bet would be 'yes' but I don't know)


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Of course some people will believe that Amazon/FBI/CIA/NSA/Moonies and whomever are always listening regardless. Nothing could ever change them of that view.
Perhaps that is because there is ample evidence it's possible. Flipping a flag on a UI screen doesn't disable a feature. It simply sends a message to the user. I've been programming for over 30 years, and I've seen plenty of programs ("apps" in current parlance) with broken code that erroneously reported to users what it was actually doing.

Virtually every retail motherboard sold in the USA since 2002 has one or more backdoors built into the BIOS. Every mobo manufactured in China has one. If there aren't backdoors on our 'smart' phones, Alexa, and similar devices, there soon will be. Web cams have the same issue. How do you think hackers get into all these IoT devices? It's largely thanks to today's culture of sloppy programming and "we'll just fix it in the next Scrum cycle" management attitude.

There are numerous examples of hackers eavesdropping. The fact is, if it is physically possible to do so, there is always a risk. It may be remote, but it's there. If that is important to someone, they should recognize that fact. Whether or not that actually happens to any particular individual likely depends on whether or not that individual is of interest. So, if you're not interesting, you don't have much to be concerned about.


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For the record Amazon does not keep day to day conversations. Anything it has recorded can easily be deleted from within your Amazon account.
That doesn't mean it's deleted from everywhere. Again, there's what you see and what you don't see. The CIA has - quite literally - warehouses of servers that store data vacuumed from various sources. It is eventually disposed of but not until it's been filtered.

It's highly likely that today it's possible for various actors to glean copies of the voice data you're referring to. Again, one has to assess their personal risk tolerance and their ideological preferences and act accordingly. You are naive if you don't believe there's less and less privacy in the world, and that we aren't all freely handing over our own "content," because that is most certainly the case. Most people just don't care. They value their perceived benefits of this process more than keeping those thoughts and behavioral patterns to themselves. What is going on today is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

It is dangerous to oversimplify the facts and reality. At least recognize what one is doing.
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post #49 of 116 Old 08-14-2017, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by HT Geek View Post

It is dangerous to oversimplify the facts and reality. At least recognize what one is doing.
Well what is one actually doing?

Here is a case from earlier this year where Amazon refused to hand over private conversations to the Police considered relevant in a case as serious as murder.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/amazon...igation-2017-2

To quote Amazon...""Amazon will not release customer information without a valid and binding legal demand properly served on us. Amazon objects to overbroad or otherwise inappropriate demands as a matter of course"

So even if the authorities have these acres of servers with illegally obtained private conversations, like that fantasy show Person of Interest, there is not much they can do with it. The security services are bound by the law just like the rest of us.

And yes Amazon's marketing is on by default and you have to switch it off. Big deal!

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post #50 of 116 Old 08-14-2017, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by sutton8 View Post
Well what is one actually doing?
Permitting the potential collection of personal data about oneself, possibly without one's knowledge.

If you are not concerned with privacy and what others can and will do with your data, most likely unbeknownst to you, then that is your decision. My intent was to make it clear to anyone who doesn't understand some of the potential vulnerabilities and pitfalls of IoT devices that they do exist. Changing preferences or settings on a device does not alter that device's physical capability of collecting data. If it can be collected, it can be transmitted and stored. Once any data leaves your device, you have no control over it whatsoever.

Most people choose convenience over privacy, and that's fine. It is a personal choice. I'm simply making an effort to allow people to make well informed choices, not judge their decisions.


Quote:
Here is a case from earlier this year where Amazon refused to hand over private conversations to the Police considered relevant in a case as serious as murder.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/amazon...igation-2017-2

To quote Amazon...""Amazon will not release customer information without a valid and binding legal demand properly served on us. Amazon objects to overbroad or otherwise inappropriate demands as a matter of course"

So even if the authorities have these acres of servers with illegally obtained private conversations, like that fantasy show Person of Interest, there is not much they can do with it. The security services are bound by the law just like the rest of us.
Right. You are underscoring my point - which is that such information exists and it's not under the control of the user. And we've seen how both corporations and government employees can and do flaunt those laws on occasion. Laws also change. And there are mechanisms to circumvent them, such as secret courts, etc. All the authorities had to do in the case you mentioned was follow proper procedure to obtain the data. The fact is the data existed. Amazon implied that through their response, and did not rule out that the authorities could obtain that data if they served Amazon with the appropriate legal instruments. Amazon was exercising its rights and protecting its revenue stream. Some people would not purchase the product if the story were told with Amazon complying with a non-legally binding request, but it would be a moot point if there weren't some data retained by Amazon in the first place.


Quote:
And yes Amazon's marketing is on by default and you have to switch it off. Big deal!
And as I stated earlier, just because you switch something off doesn't mean it's off. It means you believe it is off.

I'm just pointing out the risks. It's up to any particular person to ascertain if they personally are concerned about risks and vulnerabilities or not.
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post #51 of 116 Old 08-14-2017, 11:31 AM
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I'm just pointing out the risks. It's up to any particular person to ascertain if they personally are concerned about risks and vulnerabilities or not.
Listen every time you go out of the front door you are exposing yourself to risk. I could come into your house and steal your stereo. Likewise if you put your credit card on the internet to purchase a DVD or click a dodgy link. Don't get out of bed or live modern life at all if you are concerned about everyday ordinary risk.

The assertion from the posters above is that the authorities are illegally using Alexa to listen in on private conversations, typically the type of surveillance that needs a court order. I believe that is crap, and even if it was true then there is nothing they could actually do with illegally obtained "evidence".

To be honest I could not care less if Amazon knows I listen to the Beatles or that I set my alarm for 6.30. Or that Russian hackers or anybody could potentially get to that data. Amazon has stated how it uses recorded information and it does not look too unprincipled to me. They do not routinely listen into people conversations and you have the easy ability to delete anything that has been recorded if you so wish.

If that is a concern to you then so be it.

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post #52 of 116 Old 08-18-2017, 10:45 PM
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A month or so ago, I was watching news on TV when they started talking about a woman was getting pretty beat up by a man in the home. She kept yelling for help and Elexa call the police and the police arrived in time.

That started making me thinking about someone is listening.

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post #53 of 116 Old 08-23-2017, 05:58 AM
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Just curious, does anyone know if this Alexa firmware update will be pushed to all the HS1 and HS2 HEOS speakers? Or just the newer generation speakers?
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post #54 of 116 Old 09-17-2017, 04:10 AM
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If someone talks while he sleeps and say the name of a product while doing so, will Alexa order it from Amazon (if it's an account linked to it)? Any AI designed to stop that ?
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post #55 of 116 Old 09-17-2017, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by wzawisa View Post
Just curious, does anyone know if this Alexa firmware update will be pushed to all the HS1 and HS2 HEOS speakers? Or just the newer generation speakers?
It is both, albeit the HS1 will require a bluetooth adapter to connect to Alexa.

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post #56 of 116 Old 09-17-2017, 02:38 PM
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"Alexa, i just put my baby Max down for a nap. Please set the volume accordingly."

"O.K. Mike, now setting the volume for max. . . . "

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post #57 of 116 Old 09-18-2017, 08:32 AM
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Denon Heos Drive

Does anyone know where to find the Denon Heos Drive? They seemed to have evaporated from the planet. No dealer has them in stock and no information from Denon to that end. I would imagine it's because of the new and improved version that will replace the old.
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post #58 of 116 Old 09-18-2017, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben_Z View Post
If someone talks while he sleeps and say the name of a product while doing so, will Alexa order it from Amazon (if it's an account linked to it)? Any AI designed to stop that ?
Not sure if serious.

If you're really worried, there is a "passcode to confirm order option" you can enable. Or if your super-worried, you can turn off voice ordering all together.

Did you guys see this?
http://denon.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5919
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post #59 of 116 Old 09-29-2017, 12:21 PM
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In case you missed it, the Heos Alexa skill is now available.
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post #60 of 116 Old 10-09-2017, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by freestylr View Post
In case you missed it, the Heos Alexa skill is now available.
I've decided that this skill basically doesn't do a damn thing, at the moment. You cannot (for example), tell your HEOS speaker to play Pandora. Apparently, this is coming in a future release.
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