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post #31 of 149 Old 01-06-2015, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by btran33 View Post
Hi Ralph:
A little off topic! However, do you mind discuss your opinion between the Marantz AV8801 vs AV7702 in term of music and multichannel? I'm thinking of upgrading to Atmos and want to know if I should wait for the AV8802 or the AV7702 should be fine. I'm mostly using the AV8801 for movie, but do listen to music now and then.
Thank you!
Greetings,

I was asked this question via PM by other members. Here is what I have told them:

In terms of movie performance I see no real difference. I don't find the AV7702 to be as transparent with music, specifically two channel. With multi-channel high resolution music like SACD/DVD Audio I find it to be better than expected and for all intent and purposes on par with the 8801. Two channel isn't bad, but it colors it a bit and sounds edgier than the 8801.

As far as build quality goes there is no question that the 8801 is heftier with a more solidly built chassis.

I wouldn't go so far to say that the 7702 is better than the 8801 especially if you're not interested in the updated features. I will say that for what it costs it offers lots of bang for the buck and is well worth considering for movie enthusiasts.


Keep in mind that I have only spent about ten days with the AV7702. After spreading its wings for a few more hours it may warm some with music but my guess would be it is what it is (and truth be told it's not a bad thing ).


Regards,
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post #32 of 149 Old 01-06-2015, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gonzalc3 View Post
Congratulations Ralph!
It seems that you used a speaker layout which is a mix betweem the one recomended for atmos and the one for auro 3D.
Why you didn't go with 4 inceiling speakers as atmos specified?
Greetings,

Chris, the layout of my room/four surrounds has always reproduced overhead effects extremely well. In giving this some thought I felt that placing in-ceiling speakers in the Top Rear position (which would effectively have six speakers contributing to the acoustic plane behind the MLP) might be unnecessary. Additionally I felt that I wanted to keep my options open, not only for the current DTS Neo:X but Auro as well as whatever would be coming from DTS (which we now know to be DTS:X) for immersive sound.

The Top Middle placement coupled with the Front Height placement works very nicely with Atmos while still leaving some flexibility should I find it necessary. At Top Middle the in-ceiling speakers do a great job covering both rows of seating while I still get the aforementioned cohesiveness from the rear soundstage blended with the overhead placement.

When all 11.2 channels are firing the system sounds terrific.


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post #33 of 149 Old 01-06-2015, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DenverMDM View Post
Ralph,

Thanks for your thoughts on Atmos. Can you further describe your methodology on the ceiling speaker placement in the middle? Was this by "feel" or was there some scientific/Dolby white paper influence? Also, did you try other positions such as rear height placement? Coming from the excellent 8801 and using DTS Neo X would you state that the immersion is better? Thanks in advance!

Maurice
Greetings,

Maurice, see the post above for insights into why I went with this set up. As for going from DTS Neo:X to the Dolby Surround Upmixer for non-Atmos encoded sound I would say that it depends on the track. The differences can be hard to detect on some but noticeably obvious on others. I will have to reserve a definitive opinion for a later time after I have had the opportunity to audition titles that I am familiar with.


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post #34 of 149 Old 01-06-2015, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post
Greetings,

I was asked this question via PM by other members. Here is what I have told them:

In terms of movie performance I see no real difference. I don't find the AV7702 to be as transparent with music, specifically two channel. With multi-channel high resolution music like SACD/DVD Audio I find it to be better than expected and for all intent and purposes on par with the 8801. Two channel isn't bad, but it colors it a bit and sounds edgier than the 8801.

As far as build quality goes there is no question that the 8801 is heftier with a more solidly built chassis.

I wouldn't go so far to say that the 7702 is better than the 8801 especially if you're not interested in the updated features. I will say that for what it costs it offers lots of bang for the buck and is well worth considering for movie enthusiasts.

Keep in mind that I have only spent about ten days with the AV7702. After spreading its wings for a few more hours it may warm some with music but my guess would be it is what it is (and truth be told it's not a bad thing ).


Regards,



Hello Ralph,
Hope I'm not straying off course here at Blu-Ray Disc Reviews. Just agreeing with 2ch analog Music playback of some of todays AVRs.
Denon X4100 is execellent for Atmos, DTS7.1 Movies, but in my opinion, as for 2-channel music it isn't quite there. Still have a lot of Vinyl, so after reading others tips and a glowing review, added Emotiva 7 ch. amp(Great price!) and now let my vinyl (through Parasound Zphono)and flac (Teac Dac) 2-channel play Pure Audio through Emotiva to my front L/R Klipsch towers...much better 2 ch. (Stereo) music now. The Emotiva handles 5.0.2 of my surrounds and the Denon 4100 handles 2-subs & front high L/R channels.
Regards,
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post #35 of 149 Old 01-06-2015, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post
Greetings,

I was asked this question via PM by other members. Here is what I have told them:

In terms of movie performance I see no real difference. I don't find the AV7702 to be as transparent with music, specifically two channel. With multi-channel high resolution music like SACD/DVD Audio I find it to be better than expected and for all intent and purposes on par with the 8801. Two channel isn't bad, but it colors it a bit and sounds edgier than the 8801.

As far as build quality goes there is no question that the 8801 is heftier with a more solidly built chassis.

I wouldn't go so far to say that the 7702 is better than the 8801 especially if you're not interested in the updated features. I will say that for what it costs it offers lots of bang for the buck and is well worth considering for movie enthusiasts.


Keep in mind that I have only spent about ten days with the AV7702. After spreading its wings for a few more hours it may warm some with music but my guess would be it is what it is (and truth be told it's not a bad thing ).


Regards,
Ralph:
Thanks for answering my question.
Sincerely,
BT
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post #36 of 149 Old 01-06-2015, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post
Greetings,

I was asked this question via PM by other members. Here is what I have told them:

In terms of movie performance I see no real difference. I don't find the AV7702 to be as transparent with music, specifically two channel. With multi-channel high resolution music like SACD/DVD Audio I find it to be better than expected and for all intent and purposes on par with the 8801. Two channel isn't bad, but it colors it a bit and sounds edgier than the 8801.

As far as build quality goes there is no question that the 8801 is heftier with a more solidly built chassis.

I wouldn't go so far to say that the 7702 is better than the 8801 especially if you're not interested in the updated features. I will say that for what it costs it offers lots of bang for the buck and is well worth considering for movie enthusiasts.


Keep in mind that I have only spent about ten days with the AV7702. After spreading its wings for a few more hours it may warm some with music but my guess would be it is what it is (and truth be told it's not a bad thing ).



Regards,

Congrats Ralph

And thanks for sharing your honest comments on this, as I've been waiting to hear about its 2/ch performance

Do keep us updated on your exploration of the 7702 !
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post #37 of 149 Old 01-06-2015, 04:59 PM
 
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Ralph, I wish you (and all of us) many Blu-ray Dolby Atmos encoded movies and music concerts and documentaries in 2015.
May they roll them like flying pancakes. ...By the tons loads. ...With real maple syrup from Quebec, Canada. ...Meaning quality substance over superficial sound gimmicks.

* One question: If you review a Blu-ray title encoded with DTS-HD MA 7.1 (non-Dolby Atmos), are you going to engage DSU to review its audio, and score?
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post #38 of 149 Old 01-06-2015, 05:55 PM
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Dolby Atmos

Congratulations Ralph on you upgrade. I look forward to your reviews. I have also upgraded to Dolby Atmos. I decided to go with the Denon X4100W receiver. I am using the pre outs on the receiver and a Rotel 1098 200 WPC. I am also considering to upgrade later this year to the Marantz 8802 or a 2ch preamp like the like the Ayre K-5xeMP with HT bypass.
I Ihave watched Expendables 3, Transformers Age of Extinction, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. They all sounded fantastic. The sound moves all around you in three-dimensional space so I felt like I was inside the action. Sounds came from all directions, including overhead. It’s a very immersive experience with astonishing clarity, richness, detail, and depth which is what I expected from the Atmos upgrade. I encourage everyone to try to get a demo in the correct environment.
What really shocked me in a good way was the Dolby Up mix of 5.1 -7.1 titles. I watched Star Wars Trilogy originally in the Astro Plaza NY when the movie was originally released and I remember watching the 70MM-and listening to 6-Track Audio of these films and being blown away. I have had these films on several formats and different sound systems and I have never felt that original audio experience that I remember in the Astro Plaza. When I use the Dolby Up Mixer with the DTS 6.1 track it brings back that experience. Just mytake.

My System consist of a 7.2.2 Atmos set up.

Front LR Speakers-Vandersteen 2CE SignatureMII
Front Center-Vandersteen VCC5
Surrounds, Rear and Ceiling-Vandersteen VSM1
Subwoffers 2-Vandersteen V2W
Electronics:
Rotel-1095 5CH 200 WPC Power Amplifier forLCR & Ceiling
Denon X4100W Atmos Receiver 125 WPC for Back and Surrounds.( I am using the 5.1 Pre Outs for the other Channels)
Oppo-105 Blu Pay Player
Pioneer-BDP 09FD Blu Ray Player
Tivo XL4
Apple TV
Projector-JVC RS-45
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Have a great New Year!!
Here are some pics of my HT.
Thank You

Nelson Albino
Sent from my iPad
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post #39 of 149 Old 01-06-2015, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post
Greetings,

I was asked this question via PM by other members. Here is what I have told them:

In terms of movie performance I see no real difference. I don't find the AV7702 to be as transparent with music, specifically two channel. With multi-channel high resolution music like SACD/DVD Audio I find it to be better than expected and for all intent and purposes on par with the 8801. Two channel isn't bad, but it colors it a bit and sounds edgier than the 8801.

As far as build quality goes there is no question that the 8801 is heftier with a more solidly built chassis.

I wouldn't go so far to say that the 7702 is better than the 8801 especially if you're not interested in the updated features. I will say that for what it costs it offers lots of bang for the buck and is well worth considering for movie enthusiasts.

Keep in mind that I have only spent about ten days with the AV7702. After spreading its wings for a few more hours it may warm some with music but my guess would be it is what it is (and truth be told it's not a bad thing ).


Regards,

Thanks Ralph for the very good info about the AV7702, I presently got a AV8801 and do mostly movie
So I might go this way for an up-grade since I would also need to purchase the following to have all my speaker match and nothing really worth wise to replace my projector since I do only 2D at this time (JVC DLA-X30);
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7500.html to match my 7700
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7700.html
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/av7702.html
4 or 6 of these with proper brackets, if I go 6 then I need another 7700
http://www.aperionaudio.com/speakers...kshelf-speaker
And all proper XLR cable connections.


Just start to be an expensive ordeal
If you have more word of wisdom, I would welcome them


Ray
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post #40 of 149 Old 01-06-2015, 11:58 PM
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That's why you are my favorite reviewer.

Looking forward for more Atmos material.
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post #41 of 149 Old 01-07-2015, 11:02 AM
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I'm thinking of undertaking the same hifi journey you're on. I currently have the 8801. Thinking of getting the 7702 and then ultimately the 8802 when it ships with HDCP 2.2 (May?). What are your thoughts on the 8801 vs the 7702? Have you used DSU?

Thanks, Ralph.

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post #42 of 149 Old 01-07-2015, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
I'm thinking of undertaking the same hifi journey you're on. I currently have the 8801. Thinking of getting the 7702 and then ultimately the 8802 when it ships with HDCP 2.2 (May?). What are your thoughts on the 8801 vs the 7702? Have you used DSU?

Thanks, Ralph.
Greetings,

Hi Waboman, I responded to this question earlier in the thread. You can see it HERE

As for DSU, yes I have used it and make reference to it in the article.


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post #43 of 149 Old 01-07-2015, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post
Greetings,

Hi Waboman, I responded to this question earlier in the thread. You can see it HERE

As for DSU, yes I have used it and make reference to it in the article.


Regards,
D'oh! That's what I get for only having one cup of coffee this morning. Thanks!
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post #44 of 149 Old 01-07-2015, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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D'oh! That's what I get for only having one cup of coffee this morning. Thanks!
Greetings,

No problem..


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post #45 of 149 Old 02-28-2015, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
Congrats Ralph! Look forward to to the new discussion now that you're immersed. Aside from new Atmos titles and I'm sure DTS:X when that becomes available, perhaps some digging into the Potts Vault and some comment on older titles like U-571 and Pearl Harbor using DSU.
I don't have ATMOS but I did buy Expendables 3 that unfortunately doesn't have a DD 5.1 option. When I play the Blue Ray through my system OPPO 105 player connected to my audio system, the dialog disappears for several minutes intermittently. When I select Stereo on my Receiver vs. True HD no problem.

I guess I'm going to have to stick to non ATMOS disks in the future.
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post #46 of 149 Old 02-28-2015, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jllaudio View Post
I don't have ATMOS but I did buy Expendables 3 that unfortunately doesn't have a DD 5.1 option. When I play the Blue Ray through my system OPPO 105 player connected to my audio system, the dialog disappears for several minutes intermittently. When I select Stereo on my Receiver vs. True HD no problem.

I guess I'm going to have to stick to non ATMOS disks in the future.

I don't have any problems playing Expendables 3 through my Oppo 105D (connected to an Integra 80.2 pre-pro). I seriously doubt that the "D" in my Oppo makes any difference to the audio signal, so perhaps you may want to exchange your disc for another one before giving up on Atmos encoded discs forever! Just a thought.


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post #47 of 149 Old 03-01-2015, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jllaudio View Post
I don't have ATMOS but I did buy Expendables 3 that unfortunately doesn't have a DD 5.1 option. When I play the Blue Ray through my system OPPO 105 player connected to my audio system, the dialog disappears for several minutes intermittently. When I select Stereo on my Receiver vs. True HD no problem.
This is the first report I've seen of Oppo 103/105 (regular or Darbee) users having issues playing current ATMOS tracks. Are you running the latest firmware on your 105?

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post #48 of 149 Old 03-01-2015, 07:19 AM
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This is the first report I've seen of Oppo 103/105 (regular or Darbee) users having issues playing current ATMOS tracks. Are you running the latest firmware on your 105?
I asked this as a question over at the Blue Ray review forum of "Expendable 3" and I believe there are others that are having the same problem. I believe the solution there was to set up for LPCM vs. Bitstream for Expendables 3 on the OPPO, I don't know about others.

I did a firmware update check and OPPO said I had the latest version "BDP10X-77-0827". I have the OPPO network connected and get automatic updates.
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post #49 of 149 Old 03-07-2015, 08:05 AM
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will this automatically be integrated into blurays?
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post #50 of 149 Old 03-07-2015, 09:33 AM
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will this automatically be integrated into blurays?
If you mean Atmos encoding, no.

It's entirely up to the studio that produced the movie. Most movies which had Atmos in the theater don't have it on Blu-ray, while some movies which didn't have Atmos in the theater do have it on Blu-ray.

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post #51 of 149 Old 03-08-2015, 04:21 PM
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I read that the new hungers game 3 has a dolby atmos logo for it.. i was wondering what logo that was as well as the other dolby atmos related titles. I own transformers 4, but that didnt have any dolby atmos logo. I think lionsgate does that more. I was wondering if the logo is the same for expendables 3 and john wick?

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post #52 of 149 Old 03-12-2015, 04:34 PM
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Brother Ralph,
I am wondering how critical speaker placement is for the new ATMOS format.I am waiting for the new DTS format to launch before upgrading my system but would like to figure out speaker placement ASAP.
Thanks for all you do...appreciate your time!
JB
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post #53 of 149 Old 03-13-2015, 03:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Brother Ralph,
I am wondering how critical speaker placement is for the new ATMOS format.I am waiting for the new DTS format to launch before upgrading my system but would like to figure out speaker placement ASAP.
Thanks for all you do...appreciate your time!
JB
Greetings,

JB, what type of configuration are you thinking about? In-ceiling speakers, height speakers or a combination? Will it be based upon a 5.1 or 7.1 layout to start with?


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post #54 of 149 Old 04-04-2015, 05:00 AM
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Sound problems with 2 Blu Rays

Hi All.
Just received John Wick & expendables 3, on Blu Ray, from Amazon both of which have the Dolby TrueHD Atmos Mix soundtracks.
Both of these have brief sound gaps {2 -4 seconds} all through the movie. I have NEVER experienced ANY problems with sound be it Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD MA etc until now.

The trailers leading up to the film are fine but as soon as the film starts so does these brief sound gaps start, and literally are constant throughout the films.

Unfortunately the film does not offer any alternate sound, say just TrueHD so I wonder what to do
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post #55 of 149 Old 04-04-2015, 10:00 AM
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Hi All.
Just received John Wick & expendables 3, on Blu Ray, from Amazon both of which have the Dolby TrueHD Atmos Mix soundtracks.
Both of these have brief sound gaps {2 -4 seconds} all through the movie. I have NEVER experienced ANY problems with sound be it Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD MA etc until now.

The trailers leading up to the film are fine but as soon as the film starts so does these brief sound gaps start, and literally are constant throughout the films.

Unfortunately the film does not offer any alternate sound, say just TrueHD so I wonder what to do

You need to consider getting a high-performance current-model Blu-ray player.

Audio dropouts like you describe are common, especially with older players, when they attempt to bitstream the audio from movies which make extensive use of "Seamless Branching". Several studios use an absurd amount of that feature in an attempt to prevent people from copying their discs. Atmos titles are among those affected.

A workaround is to disable bitstreaming (thus forgoing Atmos) so the audio is decoded in the player.

Selden

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post #56 of 149 Old 04-04-2015, 02:15 PM
 
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Like Selden just said above;

1. Set the HDMI Audio Out of your Blu-ray player's audio setup menu to LPCM
2. Or if you have a Dolby Atmos SSP or AV receiver, buy another/newer Blu-ray player; like an Oppo 103/105 for example.

* I bet you have an Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray player? ...If yes, then you'll need to replace it for Dolby Atmos audio, because you can only get it when set to "Bitstream" in your BR player.
If you don't have a Dolby Atmos audio decoder, then just select option number one above.
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post #57 of 149 Old 04-06-2015, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Like Selden just said above;

1. Set the HDMI Audio Out of your Blu-ray player's audio setup menu to LPCM
2. Or if you have a Dolby Atmos SSP or AV receiver, buy another/newer Blu-ray player; like an Oppo 103/105 for example.

* I bet you have an Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray player? ...If yes, then you'll need to replace it for Dolby Atmos audio, because you can only get it when set to "Bitstream" in your BR player.
If you don't have a Dolby Atmos audio decoder, then just select option number one above.
Thank you for your help. I actually have the Cambridge Audio 751BD so I am not sure what model oppo that could be similar to.

I just wish they would make changes that are backwards compatible or at least give options on the Blu Ray film disc.
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post #58 of 149 Old 05-20-2015, 02:43 PM
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Folks, newbie to Atmos and looking for help. Would like to buy Atmos DVD's and want to make sure I am getting the right DVD's. So far I gathered the following to have Atmos (to name a few)

American Sniper
Unbroken
Gravity
Expendables
John Wick

I bought Gravity earlier (before I got my Denon X4100W) and that was a 3D/Blu ray pack. Does this have Atmos or do I need to get a different version. If so what should I look for on the cover (does it have Atmos logo?). Same for the other DVD's. Can I get these off best buy/amazon or do I need to make sure I have to look for specific Atmos enabled discs.

Appreciate the help
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post #59 of 149 Old 05-21-2015, 03:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gongura View Post
Folks, newbie to Atmos and looking for help. Would like to buy Atmos DVD's and want to make sure I am getting the right DVD's. So far I gathered the following to have Atmos (to name a few)

American Sniper
Unbroken
Gravity
Expendables
John Wick

I bought Gravity earlier (before I got my Denon X4100W) and that was a 3D/Blu ray pack. Does this have Atmos or do I need to get a different version. If so what should I look for on the cover (does it have Atmos logo?). Same for the other DVD's. Can I get these off best buy/amazon or do I need to make sure I have to look for specific Atmos enabled discs.

Appreciate the help
Greetings,

Welcome to the world of immersive audio for the home gongura.


The version of Gravity that you currently have doesn't include the Dolby Atmos mix. You will the more recent release, the Special Edition, which I reviewed: Gravity: Diamond Luxe Special Edition Blu-ray Review

Enjoy Atmos!


Regards,

Ralph C. Potts
Blu-ray Reviewer
My Home Theater
Follow me on Twitter @RalphAVSreviews
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post #60 of 149 Old 07-23-2015, 07:52 PM
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Reference Atmos Blu-Ray

I am currently getting my HT setup to play Atmos and just wondering what the best debut Blu-Ray would be to go with? My guess is Gravity but thought maybe there was something else users have found to be equally impressive in showing off it's soundtrack??
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