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post #451 of 682 Old 01-11-2019, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Actionable Mango View Post
Reminds me of the $3500 Lexicon blu-ray player that was really a reboxed $500 Oppo:
http://www.wired.com/2010/01/blu-ra...-charges-3500/
Hey, don't knock those people that keep wanting to spend money, also people that always like to keep up with the fashion. I just bought two perfectly good OPPO non blu ray players originally $500, I bought them $60 each shipped. They are the best sounding CD players I have so far.
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post #452 of 682 Old 01-11-2019, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Actionable Mango View Post
Reminds me of the $3500 Lexicon blu-ray player that was really a reboxed $500 Oppo:
http://www.wired.com/2010/01/blu-ra...-charges-3500/
As we all know, Lexicon is owned by Harman, who employs Floyd Toole, who has a really cool double blind test facility.

That Lexicon must be better than the Oppo. LOL
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post #453 of 682 Old 01-11-2019, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 3db View Post
I've upgraded my system from Home Theater to Home Orchestra
Yes, great. Now the software to fire it up.
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post #454 of 682 Old 01-11-2019, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
John Risch and his silly cable and AC power trinkets!

John Risch is no EE either. Check it out, his bio is online. He once shortly worked at a now defunct company called Lenco which made bargin proceed TV broadcast gear. (Stuff was OK). He thinks that qualifies him as a video expert.

....
Perhaps that is the wrong person as his name is Jon, not John.Check out his two conference papers at AES. His bio there states JMR enterprise in 1992 and by 1998 Peavy Electronics.
Linkedit shows this:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-risch-91705a40.
He is an audio goldenear. Don't think he ever talked about video.
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post #455 of 682 Old 01-11-2019, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post
Perhaps that is the wrong person as his name is Jon, not John.Check out his two conference papers at AES. His bio there states JMR enterprise in 1992 and by 1998 Peavy Electronics.
Linkedit shows this:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-risch-91705a40.
He is an audio goldenear. Don't think he ever talked about video.

That's the jon risch that pushed the crazy idea of crystal fracture in the other article? Did you read my reply? He is NOT an EE. This is the quote in his Link In that he is:
Transducer Engineering Dept, Peavey Electronics Corp.
Primary responsibility is to design loudspeaker systems, including pro sound reinforcement, permanent installation, studio monitors, PA, etc.

As an avid audiophile and music lover I am interested in all things audio, especially loudspeakers, psycho-acoustics, and signal transfer issues.

Specialties: Speaker system design, with special focus on crossover filter design and refinement, and transducer analysis and development.



which part that said he know electronics AND on top, Electromagnetics? In you article about fracture crystal and all, that's an ignorant talk a NON EE that learn a little bit of electronics will say. He must be an EE dropout after the 2nd year.


AND his previous job was working for a DISH WASHER company. Now that's sophisticated electronics!!!!

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post #456 of 682 Old 01-11-2019, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
That's why I asked him what kind of scientist/engineer he is first. I am not surprised he does not respond.
Certainly I do not respond ... to join those merely trolling with snide remarks. But just for the record, I´m a Master of Information Science in Digital Audio Processing, also M AES , M IEEE with extensive and eclectic research experience from AI through high energy physics, plus over 40 years experience in DIY audio and electroacoustics. No further comment necessary!
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post #457 of 682 Old 01-11-2019, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by amco View Post
Certainly I do not respond ... to join those merely trolling with snide remarks. But just for the record, I´m a Master of Information Science in Digital Audio Processing, also M AES , M IEEE with extensive and eclectic research experience from AI through high energy physics, plus over 40 years experience in DIY audio and electroacoustics. No further comment necessary!
Ok, elaborate why you post that on the first place. I am all ears.

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post #458 of 682 Old 01-11-2019, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
...

AND his previous job was working for a DISH WASHER company. Now that's sophisticated electronics!!!!
Or, was that R&D Design engineer at Discwasher INC. Not a kitchen dishwasher or company.
And, University of Missoury; EE curriculum, physics, circuits, biology.
Has a few patents, 5 that I am reading, to his name, good, bad or indifferent. How many do you have? How many papers did you submit to AES, good bad, indifferent? He has two.
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post #459 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post
Or, was that R&D Design engineer at Discwasher INC. Not a kitchen dishwasher or company.
And, University of Missoury; EE curriculum, physics, circuits, biology.
Has a few patents, 5 that I am reading, to his name, good, bad or indifferent. How many do you have? How many papers did you submit to AES, good bad, indifferent? He has two.

I published two papers in American Institute of Physics Review of Scientific Instruments.

http://aip.scitation.org/doi/abs/10...ournalCode=rsi

http://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.1144464


I own two patents

http://patents.google.com/patent/US...oq=yungman+liu

http://patents.google.com/patent/US...ngman+alan+liu


How about you since you said you are a scientist.

I just read the link you provided, in fact, I copied straight out from the link word by word.

You are scientist, you must have studied EM theory. I put in my explanation why he said about collision and fracture is bull. You can join in.


Now I know Audio Engineering Society AES. I was wondering if I have ideas on audio, where do I go to submit papers. That's good info. I am pretty sure American Institute of Physics doesn't give a hood in something about audio equipment.

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post #460 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 02:29 AM
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Legendary amp designer Bascom King on the Benchmark AHB2 amplifier, the best measuring amp he ever tested, and how it sounded sterile and uninvolving once he put it in his system:

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post #461 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by emcdade View Post
Legendary amp designer Bascom King on the Benchmark AHB2 amplifier, the best measuring amp he ever tested, and how it sounded sterile and uninvolving once he put it in his system:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INpfQZrMwBQ
Ha ha, but what he said doesn't mean anything because there's no ABX and DBT, what he commented doesn't mean a thing!!!


Seriously, I would really like to have a chance to talk to him, listen to his impression on different amp topologies. Actually draw out schematics and talk about the sound of different designs. I so wish he kept talking about his impression on different amps instead of talking about going to shows.

I am at the process of bringing up my 4th design that is similar to what the Benchmark AHB2. I'll have to see whether it's boring or not. Funny he like to have a little crossover distortion, does that mean he doesn't like class A as class A amps don't have crossover distortion?
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post #462 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
Ha ha, but what he said doesn't mean anything because there's no ABX and DBT, what he commented doesn't mean a thing!!!
Correct. I also wonder to what degree at age 80 his hearing capabilities are altered by his hearing aids and presbycusis?
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post #463 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by emcdade View Post
Benchmark AHB2 amplifier, the best measuring amp he ever tested, and how it sounded sterile and uninvolving once he put it in his system
And if the recording he was listening to was sterile and uninvolving then the amp was doing its job correctly.
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post #464 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
And if the recording he was listening to was sterile and uninvolving then the amp was doing its job correctly.
I’m willing to bet he listened to actual music, unlike your standard fare of test signals and 30 second clips.
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post #465 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
Ha ha, but what he said doesn't mean anything because there's no ABX and DBT, what he commented doesn't mean a thing!!!


Seriously, I would really like to have a chance to talk to him, listen to his impression on different amp topologies. Actually draw out schematics and talk about the sound of different designs. I so wish he kept talking about his impression on different amps instead of talking about going to shows.

I am at the process of bringing up my 4th design that is similar to what the Benchmark AHB2. I'll have to see whether it's boring or not. Funny he like to have a little crossover distortion, does that mean he doesn't like class A as class A amps don't have crossover distortion?
There’s several videos of him on YT, one specifically about Class A. He believes there is the inherit linearity advantage to Class A but like most feels that the trade off in efficiency may not be worth it in most situations. Large and hot is not the direction the world is moving in.
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post #466 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by emcdade View Post
I’m willing to bet he listened to actual music, unlike your standard fare of test signals and 30 second clips.
"Actual music"? Does that mean live and not prerecorded music?

Not sure what you mean by my "standard fare" but when I test people I always let them chose whatever music they feel will be the most revealing [and which they are free to change even mid-test if they want], including the length, exposure duration, amount and type of pre-training, and transitioning frequency and speed are all always 100% in their control at all times, not mine.
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post #467 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by emcdade View Post
There’s several videos of him on YT, one specifically about Class A. He believes there is the inherit linearity advantage to Class A but like most feels that the trade off in efficiency may not be worth it in most situations. Large and hot is not the direction the world is moving in.
Thanks


I found it later on too, he has quite a few videos.


Yes, class A is too inefficient, that's the reason a lot of people including me that design amps with high bias class AB. That is it behaves like class A in the first few watts before switching to class B. The idea is crossover distortion is a constant amount regardless of the signal size, if you play the music soft, the crossover distortion is quite large in respect to the signal size. The idea of high bias class AB is that it will remains in class A until the signal size is quite large before it switch to class B. That is when crossover distortion happens, the signal is already quite large, so the distortion is very small compare to the signal.


I have the first 16W in class A for 8ohm speaker, or 8W with 4ohm speaker. That should cover most of the normal listening level already.

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post #468 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
And if the recording he was listening to was sterile and uninvolving then the amp was doing its job correctly.
You mean you rather listen to a sterile amp than a good sounding amp?


Ultra low distortion doesn't mean it sounds sterile, my lowest THD (0.0025% max) amp is the liveliest sounding one.

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post #469 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
You mean you rather listen to a sterile amp than a good sounding amp?
The notion held by many that a hifi amp should impart a "pleasing" coloration to the music is ridiculous. Thankfully the vast majority don't; they are instead completely neutral or "transparent" if kept below clipping. The job of a hifi amplifier is to, get this, amplify. End of story.

If the recording itself sounds "sterile", "harsh", "bright", "warm", or whatever, doesn't matter, then that's exactly how I want my amplifier to reproduce it: accurately.
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post #470 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bing! View Post
"To argue simply, as opponents of exotic cable have done, that impedance variation is all that matters because nothing else appears to matter, reflects a lack of imagination."
yeah, and the earth is a disc...

which part of the well defined primary line constants and the equivalent circuit diagram for a 2-wire cable are these guys unable to understand? Or do want to rewrite basic physics?

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One can do all the double blind tests he can muster, but the real test for audio is does it do for you what music is supposed to?
no, the real test is if the music is reproduced as intended, that simple.
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post #471 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
The notion held by many that a hifi amp should impart a "pleasing" coloration to the music is ridiculous. Thankfully the vast majority don't; they are instead completely neutral or "transparent" if kept below clipping. The job of a hifi amplifier is to, get this, amplify. End of story.

If the recording itself sounds "sterile", "harsh", "bright", "warm", or whatever, doesn't matter, then that's exactly how I want my amplifier to reproduce it: accurately.

The notion is people listen to the one that sounds best to them, not analytically to best. I don't know why you think a "good" amp should sound the same below clipping.


Are you analyzing hifi or enjoying hifi?
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post #472 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
I don't know why you think a "good" amp should sound the same below clipping.
How do you feel about AC power cords? Should they impart a pleasing coloration to the sound or be transparent ?
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post #473 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 12:58 PM
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Are you analyzing hifi or enjoying hifi?
I'm reproducing an art form [music] at home as accurately as I possibly can within my budget and room constraints, doing my best to hear the music as the artists intended: faithfully, accurately, and with the highest fidelity [truthfulness] I can. This means purposefully introducing coloration, distortion, or noise is objectionable. See my signature for more.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original master, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".
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post #474 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
How do you feel about AC power cords? Should they impart a pleasing coloration to the sound or be transparent ?
Didn't you read any of my post on power cords? Those are snake oil. You have to be logical, I look at everything in engineering point of view, I don't automatically call snake oil like you before I investigate. I bet you didn't read a think I wrote on speaker cable analysis using pure engineering theory and just said it's snake oil.


Lots of things are snake oil, but not everything is snake oil.


Hate to ask you, I know you were a salesman of stereo, were you selling high end or just middle of the road? What system do you have?

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these guys legit?
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post #476 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 01:14 PM
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Misleading thread title. Science is never closed but always open to new data, just as humans are always open to new feelings. One day I listen to a specific music track on my audio system and become totally disengaged by the discordant sound. Another day I listen to the same track at the same volume from the same listening position and become totally immersed in the sublime subtleties of the sound. Another day, another mood. I am the variable.
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post #477 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
How do you feel about AC power cords? Should they impart a pleasing coloration to the sound or be transparent ?
Sorry Alan, I used ambiguous language in this post so I will rephrase it:

Do you feel it is desirable for a product's AC power cord to alter the sound? Please resist the urge to answer any peripheral questions, beyond what is literally being asked, thanks.
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post #478 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 01:29 PM
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I think it's very important to know what kind of equipment people have when they start preaching all "good amps" sound the same as long as they are not clipping. Some even said all speaker should sound the same if it is design right. Soul grapes might be one of the problem, but I believe most of the time, they are honest. The problem lies in if they don't have the really good amps and speakers, they don't know how much they missed. I am talking about my own experience.


I used to have a pair of middle of the road Kef Uni-Q floor stander. It's the highest model of Uni-Q at the time. It was $1100/pair. It sounded good, all the highs and lows are good, nothing is wrong. Then because of a demo sale that I could buy a pair of JM Lab 40% off. I had it set up and money around with the wiring and all. All the beginning, I was compare like ABX type that listen to a section, back and fore. Listen to the instruments, the bass and concentrate in finding the difference. I COULDN'T, they all sound very similar. The Kef is good enough that there's just nothing wrong with the sound.



After a while, I gave up, spending 3 times the price and couldn't tell the difference. I just sat there and have the music on with the JM Lab. All of a sudden, I realize how come the music sounded so "big" for the lack of words, that the instruments popped out, like live and in a big hall. It's amazing!!! Back to the Kef, it's all gone, it sounds "sterile", no 3D and small.



That's when I open my eyes, WOW!!! If you compare ABX style, there's no difference.



More importantly, if I have a pair of Kef only, I would laugh at people spending all the money and can't tell the difference in ABX test.


I am considering a better pair of speaker used. I have to say, I still cannot imagine anything better than my JM Lab. BUT I bet anything when I get a better pair, I look back to the JM LAb, I likely be laughing.


This goes with amps. You never know what you miss until you have a better ones with you for a while and it's not by ABX. AND it's very important for the nay sayers to tell people what equipment they have to put in perspective.



You don't know what you miss until you have it.

Own designed power amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.

Last edited by alan0354; 01-12-2019 at 01:35 PM.
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post #479 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Sorry Alan, I used ambiguous language in this post so I will rephrase it:

Do you feel it is desirable for a product's AC power cord to alter the sound? Please resist the urge to answer any peripheral questions, beyond what is literally being asked, thanks.

NO!!! That is snake oil. Again, did you read any of my post on the power cord? I gave very long explanation and what best to spend the money.

Own designed power amp, own designed preamp, JM LAB Spectral 913.1 speakers, Rythmik F12SE sub.
Not hooked up: Nakamichi Stasis PA-7 power amp, Velodyne VA1210 sub, Kef Reference Series center, Kef Bookshelf speaker, Monitor Audio bookshelf speaker, Infinity rear speakers. Acurus 3X200W amp.
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post #480 of 682 Old 01-12-2019, 01:32 PM
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Hate to ask you, I know you were a salesman of stereo, were you selling high end or just middle of the road? What system do you have?
I own old Fisher Price, Mattel, and Toys 'R' Us, gear. How does this matter since hardly anything I discuss in this forum is based on my own gear?
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