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post #14191 of 14251 Old 01-01-2019, 11:47 AM
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About which sony patterns you speaking about? Never seen sony patterns...
If you have a Sony UHD disc, when you are on the movie menu, type 7669 and it will take you to a hidden menu and the Sony test patterns.

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post #14192 of 14251 Old 01-01-2019, 03:19 PM
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If you have a Sony UHD disc, when you are on the movie menu, type 7669 and it will take you to a hidden menu and the Sony test patterns.
I have found only 1 file, about 7 mb. At the end of the file few patterns with grey gradations.
Can you distinguish all of gradations near black with your oled?

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post #14193 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 06:07 AM
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1. If you don`t need brightness, then you don`t need HDR. proper HDR, as intended by director.
9405C is superior in every way over any oled except contrast and black level. motion handling same with sony tv sets.
Many oled owners complain about HDR10 because picture is unnatural and overcontrasted...

2. EVERY oled have near black issues, more or less. Looks like technology limitation and last case with flashing on LG, is one one of them...

3. May be. I read all the thread and many owners choose 9405C because of oled issues and bugs. Why you don`t buy oled in 2016?
Your thinking that proper HDR can’t be viewed on an OLED is just wrong. Yes, you get brighter highlights on an LCD, but you also get intrusion of some of those same bright highlights into the letterbox areas. That can be distracting. So despite the greater brightness of the 940c, I prefer the HDR viewing experience on my 77” OLED. It’s still plenty bright for a very satisfying HDR experience without any LCD distractions. My OLED also gets Dolby Vision which my LCD does not.

As for ‘many owners complaining about HDR10’ on OLEDs, you are aware that firmware updates were implemented some time ago to correct this, right? New algorithms were written so that HDR10 does not create the issues you mentioned. Of course Dolby Vision never had this issue...assuming you have a display that is DV compatible.

Flashing on LG OLEDs is no longer a problem that I’ve noticed and hasn’t been for quite some time. You seem to be throwing out issues that existed some time ago and have since been solved. As for near black issues, I no longer see that as an issue either with the more recent gen OLEDs. There is even a significant difference between my 65” B6 OLED and my 77” G7 OLED that’s a next gen product. But if you’d like to cling to that one, go for it. Further, as I said before and you conveniently ignored, the greater visibility of some near black material on LCDs is often not what the director intended. IOW some visible shadow detail on an LCD should not be displayed if you want to strictly adhere to ‘director’s intent’. The knife cuts both ways and in either case calibration is critical. With that said, I don’t see this as a significant issue with either technology.

As to why I didn’t buy an OLED in 2016, that was the very first gen and had issues that either don’t exist 3 & 4 gens later or have been mitigated to the point that they’re no longer a concern for most viewers. Put simply, there have been very significant improvements in OLED tech since then. Brightness, noise, motion and near black have all been improved, to say nothing of the huge price drops since then. To compare a first gen product to a 3rd or 4th gen is a bit insincere and silly. It’s also one of the reasons I abandoned these threads for a long time, silly endless discussions that never bear any fruit. You prefer LCD and I, like virtually all professional reviewers, prefer OLED. If I had a very bright room with little to no light control and no need for a large viewing angle, I might consider LCD. However even the latest OLEDs do very well in bright rooms.

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http://afterconvert.com/forum/166-l...l#post40960330

No problem if somebody changed his mind after awhile...
First off you made it sound like I had owned (tried) a first gen OLED, I didn’t. I compared them, yes. Compared to the first generation OLED, I did prefer the more mature 940c LCD that was Sony’s best at that time. Given the very high cost of that first gen OLED, coupled with the issues that went along with it, I would still make that same choice. It was the right direction for me at the time.

However today, with the much better PQ of the 3rd & 4th gen OLEDs and the huge price drops, that is certainly no longer the case. Do you honestly think I would have chosen my 2nd OLED, after living with my first for a year, if I didn’t think the technology was better and the picture superior? Having dimming zones at the pixel level with OLED vs a few hundred (if you’re lucky) with LCD, is an advantage in many ways.

So continue to scour my posts from years ago (I’m flattered ), but I think you’ll find a high degree of consistency. May I have refined my opinions here and there, of course, as technology improves we’d be silly not to. Glad you’re still enjoying your 940c, I am too. It’s held up well over these years, but the Android OS on it is still hideous and will never change.

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post #14194 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 06:25 AM
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Your thinking that proper HDR can’t be viewed on an OLED is just wrong. Yes, you get brighter highlights on an LCD, but you also get intrusion of some of those same bright highlights into the letterbox areas. That can be distracting. So despite the greater brightness of the 940c, I prefer the HDR viewing experience on my 77” OLED. It’s still plenty bright for a very satisfying HDR experience without any LCD distractions. My OLED also gets Dolby Vision which my LCD does not.



As for ‘many owners complaining about HDR10’ on OLEDs, you are aware that firmware updates were implemented some time ago to correct this, right? New algorithms were written so that HDR10 does not create the issues you mentioned. Of course Dolby Vision never had this issue...assuming you have a display that is DV compatible.



Flashing on LG OLEDs is no longer a problem that I’ve noticed and hasn’t been for quite some time. You seem to be throwing out issues that existed some time ago and have since been solved. As for near black issues, I no longer see that as an issue either with the more recent gen OLEDs. There is even a significant difference between my 65” B6 OLED and my 77” G7 OLED that’s a next gen product. But if you’d like to cling to that one, go for it. Further, as I said before and you conveniently ignored, the greater visibility of some near black material on LCDs is often not what the director intended. IOW some visible shadow detail on an LCD should not be displayed if you want to strictly adhere to ‘director’s intent’. The knife cuts both ways and in either case calibration is critical. With that said, I don’t see this as a significant issue with either technology.



As to why I didn’t buy an OLED in 2016, that was the very first gen and had issues that either don’t exist 3 & 4 gens later or have been mitigated to the point that they’re no longer a concern for most viewers. Put simply, there have been very significant improvements in OLED tech since then. Brightness, noise, motion and near black have all been improved, to say nothing of the huge price drops since then. To compare a first gen product to a 3rd or 4th gen is a bit insincere and silly. It’s also one of the reasons I abandoned these threads for a long time, silly endless discussions that never bear any fruit. You prefer LCD and I, like virtually all professional reviewers, prefer OLED. If I had a very bright room with little to no light control and no need for a large viewing angle, I might consider LCD. However even the latest OLEDs do very well in bright rooms.







First off you made it sound like I had owned (tried) a first gen OLED, I didn’t. I compared them, yes. Compared to the first generation OLED, I did prefer the more mature 940c LCD that was Sony’s best at that time. Given the very high cost of that first gen OLED, coupled with the issues that went along with it, I would still make that same choice. It was the right direction for me at the time.



However today, with the much better PQ of the 3rd & 4th gen OLEDs and the huge price drops, that is certainly no longer the case. Do you honestly think I would have chosen my 2nd OLED, after living with my first for a year, if I didn’t think the technology was better and the picture superior? Having dimming zones at the pixel level with OLED vs a few hundred (if you’re lucky) with LCD, is an advantage in many ways.



So continue to scour my posts from years ago (I’m flattered ), but I think you’ll find a high degree of consistency. May I have refined my opinions here and there, of course, as technology improves we’d be silly not to. Glad you’re still enjoying your 940c, I am too. It’s held up well over these years, but the Android OS on it is still hideous and will never change.


I don’t own an OLED or a 940 but I do have a Z9F. At some point I will take the opportunity to view MI Fallout on an A9F or C8 and compare the last hour or so of that film. The outdoor footage takes advantage of all the NITS/gamut the Z has to give and I’ll be surprised if those scenes render as well on an 800nit device.


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post #14195 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 07:05 AM
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As for ‘many owners complaining about HDR10’ on OLEDs, you are aware that firmware updates were implemented some time ago to correct this, right? New algorithms were written so that HDR10 does not create the issues you mentioned. Of course Dolby Vision never had this issue...assuming you have a display that is DV compatible.

Flashing on LG OLEDs is no longer a problem that I’ve noticed and hasn’t been for quite some time. You seem to be throwing out issues that existed some time ago and have since been solved. As for near black issues, I no longer see that as an issue either with the more recent gen OLEDs. There is even a significant difference between my 65” B6 OLED and my 77” G7 OLED that’s a next gen product. But if you’d like to cling to that one, go for it. Further, as I said before and you conveniently ignored, the greater visibility of some near black material on LCDs is often not what the director intended. IOW some visible shadow detail on an LCD should not be displayed if you want to strictly adhere to ‘director’s intent’. The knife cuts both ways and in either case calibration is critical. With that said, I don’t see this as a significant issue with either technology.

However today, with the much better PQ of the 3rd & 4th gen OLEDs and the huge price drops, that is certainly no longer the case. Do you honestly think I would have chosen my 2nd OLED, after living with my first for a year, if I didn’t think the technology was better and the picture superior? Having dimming zones at the pixel level with OLED vs a few hundred (if you’re lucky) with LCD, is an advantage in many ways.

LG processing is awfull.
regarding sony oled: they have same LG panels, with all their flaws: near black banding and arfefacts, can`t show some lowest levels of grey, burning-in...

You can test your oled and you will see it.
http://afterconvert.com/forum/39-ne...y-support.html

If director don`t like that you see some shadow detail then he will erase it by any tool available...
With oled you should watch mostly DV content and better avoid HDR10, because oled not good for it...

And 3D lovers happy with 9405C, new TV`s don`t have any 3D. 9405C with Z9D are best TV`s ever made, IMHO.

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post #14196 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

As for ‘many owners complaining about HDR10’ on OLEDs, you are aware that firmware updates were implemented some time ago to correct this, right? New algorithms were written so that HDR10 does not create the issues you mentioned. Of course Dolby Vision never had this issue...assuming you have a display that is DV compatible.

Flashing on LG OLEDs is no longer a problem that I’ve noticed and hasn’t been for quite some time. You seem to be throwing out issues that existed some time ago and have since been solved. As for near black issues, I no longer see that as an issue either with the more recent gen OLEDs. There is even a significant difference between my 65” B6 OLED and my 77” G7 OLED that’s a next gen product. But if you’d like to cling to that one, go for it. Further, as I said before and you conveniently ignored, the greater visibility of some near black material on LCDs is often not what the director intended. IOW some visible shadow detail on an LCD should not be displayed if you want to strictly adhere to ‘director’s intent’. The knife cuts both ways and in either case calibration is critical. With that said, I don’t see this as a significant issue with either technology.

However today, with the much better PQ of the 3rd & 4th gen OLEDs and the huge price drops, that is certainly no longer the case. Do you honestly think I would have chosen my 2nd OLED, after living with my first for a year, if I didn’t think the technology was better and the picture superior? Having dimming zones at the pixel level with OLED vs a few hundred (if you’re lucky) with LCD, is an advantage in many ways.

LG processing is awfull. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
regarding sony oled: they have same LG panels, with all their flaws: near black banding and arfefacts, can`t show some lowest levels of grey, burning-in...

You can test your oled and you will see it.
http://afterconvert.com/forum/39-ne...y-support.html

If director don`t like that you see some shadow detail then he will erase it by any tool available...
With oled you should watch mostly DV content and better avoid HDR10, because oled not good for it...

And 3D lovers happy with 9405C, new TV`s don`t have any 3D. 9405C with Z9D are best TV`s ever made, IMHO.
You only need 500 nits minimum for proper HDR10 all the new OLED Panels no matter who the manufacturer is, far exceed them and have more than enough brightness, I love LCD brightness also. I just got rid of my 930C and bought an A9F, but not as replacement this will eventually go to my bedroom. I don’t expect the A9F to be inferior with HDR performance. My next living room TV will be an LCD , but to say HDR is no good for OLEDs is silly! Every Professional Calibrator and Tv reviewer and tv engineer will tell you the same!
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post #14197 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjObx--Oq8g

LG processing is awfull.
regarding sony oled: they have same LG panels, with all their flaws: near black banding and arfefacts, can't show some lowest levels of grey, burning-in...

You can test your oled and you will see it.
http://afterconvert.com/forum/39-ne...y-support.html

If director don't like that you see some shadow detail then he will erase it by any tool available...
With oled you should watch mostly DV content and better avoid HDR10, because oled not good for it...

And 3D lovers happy with 9405C, new TVs don't have any 3D. 9405C with Z9D are best TVs ever made, IMHO.
Just curious.. @ultrasonic , do you own a 940C or an OLED? I happen to own both and each has its positives and negatives. Why are we discussing this?

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post #14198 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 08:27 AM
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Why are we discussing this?
Because I didn`t understand why owners change one of the best TV for worse ones... People should understand that sometimes advertising is only about to sale not about to find best.

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post #14199 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 08:31 AM
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You only need 500 nits minimum for proper HDR10 all the new OLED Panels no matter who the manufacturer is, far exceed them and have more than enough brightness

to say HDR is no good for OLEDs is silly! Every Professional Calibrator and Tv reviewer and tv engineer will tell you the same!
500 nits is only for marketing, you can`t show all 10 000nits in good way with 500 nits only.

I said oled is no good for HDR10! that`s why oled owners prefer DV because it is like crutch.

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post #14200 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjObx--Oq8g

LG processing is awfull.
regarding sony oled: they have same LG panels, with all their flaws: near black banding and arfefacts, can`t show some lowest levels of grey, burning-in...

You can test your oled and you will see it.
http://afterconvert.com/forum/39-ne...y-support.html

If director don`t like that you see some shadow detail then he will erase it by any tool available...
With oled you should watch mostly DV content and better avoid HDR10, because oled not good for it...

And 3D lovers happy with 9405C, new TV`s don`t have any 3D. 9405C with Z9D are best TV`s ever made, IMHO.
Rubbish, utter absolute rubbish. You refuse to believe how products evolve. I have a Sony 940c and 2 LG OLEDs and there is very very little difference in the processing. I have written about this numerous times. I watch actual content, not test patterns...crazy, I know. Do you really think that these professional reviewers, who continually state OLED is the best display tech there is, are in some conspiratorial group do denigrate LCDs?

Okeedokey, done here. There was a reason I left these threads and nothing much has changed. The same refusal to deal with logic. I no longer have the patience to deal with people that simply don't listen.
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post #14201 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bobbino421 View Post
You only need 500 nits minimum for proper HDR10 all the new OLED Panels no matter who the manufacturer is, far exceed them and have more than enough brightness

to say HDR is no good for OLEDs is silly! Every Professional Calibrator and Tv reviewer and tv engineer will tell you the same!
500 nits is only for marketing, you can`t show all 10 000nits in good way with 500 nits only.

I said oled is no good for HDR10! that`s why oled owners prefer DV because it is like crutch.
No tv can touch 10000 nits let alone 4000 lol
My old LCD barely hit 1000 nits, if it even got that close! It still had fantastic HDR! Depending on content DV and HDR10 are not all that different to the naked eye, I couldn’t tell a difference in a blind test honestly. OLEDs are fine with HDR don’t worry yourself preoccupying yourself with it.

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post #14202 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 09:02 AM
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1. You refuse to believe how products evolve. I have a Sony 940c and 2 LG OLEDs and there is very very little difference in the processing. I have written about this numerous times. I watch actual content, not test patterns...crazy, I know. Do you really think that these professional reviewers, who continually state OLED is the best display tech there is, are in some conspiratorial group do denigrate LCDs?

2. The same refusal to deal with logic. I no longer have the patience to deal with people that simply don't listen.
1. I don`t like to believe in words and listen to advertising, I should see proofs of evolution.
No conspirancy, they just want to improove sales. If they every day speak that 9405c one of the best, then who will by modern TV`s with all their bugs? That`s why brands don`t like to let reviewers spaek about new bugs in new products.

2. You can find proofs with real content as well but what for patterns if you like to chase many hours of moovies and find bugs there?
Ok. Check this and you will see how better is 9405C:

http://drive.google.com/drive/folde...mnu8gFDspZwbDc

don`t watch this in browser, just download. If you see improvements, please let us know all the details.

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post #14203 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 09:03 AM
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Ultra silent take your theories to the LCD vs OLED threads
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post #14204 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 09:06 AM
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1.
My old LCD barely hit 1000 nits, if it even got that close! It still had fantastic HDR! Depending on content DV and HDR10 are not all that different to the naked eye, I couldn’t tell a difference in a blind test honestly.
2. OLEDs are fine with HDR don’t worry yourself preoccupying yourself with it.
1. are you speaking about 9305C?

2. DV much more prefferable for oled. A plenty of owners report about that. HDR10 is much better with FALD LCD.

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post #14205 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 09:08 AM
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Ultra silent take your theories to the LCD vs OLED threads
Check my links and you will see. Theories I can read in new reviews about oleds.
This thread about 9405-9305c and all this rubbish about oled, please, keep away from this thread.

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post #14206 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by bobbino421 View Post
Ultra silent take your theories to the LCD vs OLED threads
Check my links and you will see. Theories I can read in new reviews about oleds.
This thread about 9405-9305c and all this rubbish about oled, please, keep away from this thread. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Lol u started this nonsense not me I was just saying i no longer have the 930C and saying how much of a great TV It was. But if anyone needs input on a 930C I will help if I can! So no I won’t keep away lol. I won’t be discussing my OLED here so no worries. 😉

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post #14207 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
Because I didn`t understand why owners change one of the best TV for worse ones... People should understand that sometimes advertising is only about to sale not about to find best.
I understand your perspective; however, the 940C is a great LED TV and there are great OLED TVs as well. I would definitely not call the A1E a "worse" TV than the 940C.

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post #14208 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbino421 View Post
Ultra silent take your theories to the LCD vs OLED threads
You wrote this , so I have answered to you, because you didn`t say same to other guys, which are saying that oled is much better...
1. this thread about sony lcd models
2. I spoke about their advantages for today over oled, they are still one of the best TV`s
3. I gave the links where I did show this advantages and links where everybody else can find content and compare with new models...

My point: somebody, who understand how should look proper picture, can buy 9405C from owners (and enjoy one of the best picture at the moment), which are listening to modern reviewers too much.

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post #14209 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbino421 View Post
Ultra silent take your theories to the LCD vs OLED threads
You wrote this , so I have answered to you, because you didn`t say same to other guys, which are saying that oled is much better... [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
1. this thread about sony lcd models
2. I spoke about their advantages for today over oled, they are still one of the best TV`s
3. I gave the links where I did show this advantages and links where everybody else can find content and compare with new models...

My point: somebody, who understand how should look proper picture, can buy 9405C from owners (and enjoy one of the best picture at the moment), which are listening to modern reviewers too much. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
I wouldn’t say the A9F is better or worse either but your making a federal case out of it so to each is own.

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post #14210 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 10:04 AM
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Well that escalated quickly! Lol hopefully it’s done!

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post #14211 of 14251 Old 01-02-2019, 10:09 AM
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But I would...
Everybode made their choise. but to say that sony oled has no issues with near black it is ... wrong statement.
Seriously? If you don't own one, you wouldn't know. I own both and am completely satisfied with both sets. Let's get back to discussing the 940C.

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post #14212 of 14251 Old 01-03-2019, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
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Originally Posted by Patrick McHugh View Post
You'll want to keep Motionflow set to at least Custom with both Smoothness and Clearness set to Min, as turning Motionflow off in HDR raises the black level.
I think opposite:
Are you sure that custom-clearness - min and motion flow-off have difference in peak brightness? AFAIK Min means off.
If Motionflow is turned off in HDR the black level is raised, the issue is only corrected by setting it to Custom, also setting smoothness and clearness to min will have the same effect as if the setting was turned off.
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post #14213 of 14251 Old 01-03-2019, 06:56 AM
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Does anyone know if HDMI ports 1-4 support HDMI Enhanced Format, as the description on the TV says only ports 2 and 3 do, but I could have sworn the 930c and 940c support it on all 4 ports?
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post #14214 of 14251 Old 01-03-2019, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Patrick McHugh View Post
Does anyone know if HDMI ports 1-4 support HDMI Enhanced Format, as the description on the TV says only ports 2 and 3 do, but I could have sworn the 930c and 940c support it on all 4 ports?
You are correct. All 4 ports are usable.

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post #14215 of 14251 Old 01-03-2019, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by CCsoftball7 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick McHugh View Post
Does anyone know if HDMI ports 1-4 support HDMI Enhanced Format, as the description on the TV says only ports 2 and 3 do, but I could have sworn the 930c and 940c support it on all 4 ports?
You are correct. All 4 ports are usable.
Thank you for confirming, so I assume the ports 2 and 3 thing was meant for different models, weird they didn't fix the description for these TVs, but as long as all 4 ports work then that's all that matters.
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post #14216 of 14251 Old 01-03-2019, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Patrick McHugh View Post
Thank you for confirming, so I assume the ports 2 and 3 thing was meant for different models, weird they didn't fix the description for these TVs, but as long as all 4 ports work then that's all that matters.
Yes, correct. The other models only have 2/3 as enhanced.

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post #14217 of 14251 Old 01-04-2019, 07:06 AM
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Has anyone had a problem with the embedded Chromecast that came with the TV stop working? The App is clearly there because I can see it in the App setting, but it doesn't show up as being available from any of my devices. I've tried a Force Stop and disabling/enabling the App and it's still not being discovered and showing up as an option when I try to cast. Anyone heard of this issue and know a fix?

Edit - fixed this. TV is a 930D, btw. I had to uninstall the updates on the App to revert back to the originally installed version. When I did this the app started working again. Then I reinstalled the updates and it was fine.

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post #14218 of 14251 Old 01-04-2019, 04:04 PM
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Off-topic posts removed. If it's not about the Sony X930C / X940C and not from an owner, it probably doesn't have any place, here.

Move along.
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post #14219 of 14251 Old 01-05-2019, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick McHugh View Post
If Motionflow is turned off in HDR the black level is raised, the issue is only corrected by setting it to Custom, also setting smoothness and clearness to min will have the same effect as if the setting was turned off.
Just checked this. You were right - with MF OFF shadows are raised. And you can`t make proper black level even with Black level setting, black looking greyish.
Me personally using MF 4/0 in HDR, so no problem with blacks. But many people hate MF and switch it OFF completely. But I saw no reports about this bug nowhere in internet, this thread included.

Do you have any more observation regarding picture or sound settings? Do you have popping sound with some of the sources? when you push PAUSE or RESUME?

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post #14220 of 14251 Old 01-05-2019, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post
Just checked this. You were right - with MF OFF shadows are raised. And you can`t make proper black level even with Black level setting, black looking greyish.

Me personally using MF 4/0 in HDR, so no problem with blacks. But many people hate MF and switch it OFF completely. But I saw no reports about this bug nowhere in internet, this thread included.



Do you have any more observation regarding picture or sound settings? Do you have popping sound with some of the sources? when you push PAUSE or RESUME?


The MF HDR bug was first noticed on the 940d and afterward noticed on other models with the same chip.

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