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post #1 of 40 Old 12-27-2018, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Just Starting Out - Advice Needed

Hello, this is my first post. I have the following setup currently:

Sony XBR55930E
Sony UBPX800 4K Ultra HD player
Apple play
Logitech Harmony remote
Nintendo Switch
PS4

No Receiver or home theater, I'd like to improve sound but I'm not an audiophile. I do love movies and I have a hard time with tv speakers and hearing consistent dialogue. I also love when a movie sounds great and I'm interested in atmos as long as I dont have to mount or take up a bunch of floor space.

TV is in my living room, 21 ft L, 13 ft W, 8 ft H, 11 ft sitting distance. It's a rectangular room with an opening on the left side so we utilize maybe 15 feet of the right side of the room. I have a reclining couch and reclining chair. Tv currently is on a tv stand but will wall mount which gives us the space for a center channel and bookshelf directly in front.

My question is, what the heck am I looking for lol, I'm going back and forth on equipment and its confusing me. I would like to keep to a 3000 ballpark budget and no major installations, but theres seriously so much info out there I'm having trouble focusing on what I need and matching it up to make this a great purchase/project. I'm thinking I would like an atmos system (if it's worth the money to you guys) and i use the apple play for directvnow/hbo/netflix. Id like it optimized for streaming but take advantage of the 4k player. Potentially might expand to play music in other rooms but I'm not interested if it's a huge cost to get it. What do you folks think a good build would be?

Thanks in advance for your input and I'll do my best to provide additional
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post #2 of 40 Old 12-27-2018, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Additional info, posted too quickly.
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post #3 of 40 Old 12-28-2018, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4touchdownbundy View Post
No Receiver or home theater, I'd like to improve sound but I'm not an audiophile. I do love movies and I have a hard time with tv speakers and hearing consistent dialogue. I also love when a movie sounds great and I'm interested in atmos as long as I dont have to mount or take up a bunch of floor space.

TV is in my living room, 21 ft L, 13 ft W, 8 ft H, 11 ft sitting distance. It's a rectangular room with an opening on the left side so we utilize maybe 15 feet of the right side of the room. I have a reclining couch and reclining chair. Tv currently is on a tv stand but will wall mount which gives us the space for a center channel and bookshelf directly in front.

My question is, what the heck am I looking for lol, I'm going back and forth on equipment and its confusing me. I would like to keep to a 3000 ballpark budget and no major installations, but theres seriously so much info out there I'm having trouble focusing on what I need and matching it up to make this a great purchase/project. I'm thinking I would like an atmos system (if it's worth the money to you guys) and i use the apple play for directvnow/hbo/netflix. Id like it optimized for streaming but take advantage of the 4k player. Potentially might expand to play music in other rooms but I'm not interested if it's a huge cost to get it. What do you folks think a good build would be?

So, one option might be a sound bar arrangement - and you might want to visit the soundbar subforum. Keep in mind, a soundbar will not replicate the Atmos experience that a truly dedicated system will deliver, but it is space-saving, and will save you some $$$. You could have a look here as a place to start:

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/categories/sound-bar.html

Yes, I think Atmos is worth it - but the results will really vary based on the set up, and my personal opinion is that a soundbar will deliver the worst Atmos experience. Better than nothing? I don't know, maybe not. You don't necessarily need to spend a ton of money to get decent Atmos, but you will need to do some kind of hanging or install otherwise - wall mounts, architectural installs, or at the least , free-standing speakers as surrounds.

One option would be 3.1.2 - which would keep all of your speakers in the front - a left, a right, a center (as you mentioned, two bookshelves and a center channel), and the x.x.2 would equate to a pair of upfiring speakers designed for this kind of use that would likely sit atop the bookshelves. The ceiling material needs to be flat, and reflective to do this kind of "bounce" - which admittedly can be a mixed bag - some folks have a decent experience bouncing, others do not.

If you are really serious about it, DO have a read of the Atmos-related material on the Dolby website. You could actually have a great experience with just the 3 front speakers too, sounds like doing surrounds might be challenging in your place and you like to keep everything up front if possible??
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7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
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Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
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Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
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2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #4 of 40 Old 12-28-2018, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the advice Jonas. I dont think I'm interested in a soundbar. I have had a Bose soundbar and my tv sounded better. Plus, if I'm going to spend a few bucks I want it to be something i can build upon in the future. I think my room is big enough to handle floor standing speakers and speaker stands, but the angle for back left and right is almost 90 degrees so I dont know if that will work with 5.1.2. If I rearrange my living room to face the other wall I can elongate and provide the necessary space, but it causes other problems. I may also have to consider ceiling and wall mounting, I'll have to see what I can do around that.

I kind of like the idea of a 3.1.2 setup if you think it can work well, especially if I can hold off on making ceiling cutouts. I appreciate the links, I'll read through them for sure.

How about Brands these days. I'm sure they're all pretty good, but is there any to avoid? Anything you are partial to? I'm not short on money, but I dont need super high end if you catch my drift. Just good quality and enough to make me smile.

Thanks again!
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post #5 of 40 Old 12-29-2018, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4touchdownbundy View Post
Thank you for the advice Jonas. I dont think I'm interested in a soundbar. I have had a Bose soundbar and my tv sounded better. Plus, if I'm going to spend a few bucks I want it to be something i can build upon in the future. I think my room is big enough to handle floor standing speakers and speaker stands, but the angle for back left and right is almost 90 degrees so I dont know if that will work with 5.1.2. If I rearrange my living room to face the other wall I can elongate and provide the necessary space, but it causes other problems. I may also have to consider ceiling and wall mounting, I'll have to see what I can do around that.

I kind of like the idea of a 3.1.2 setup if you think it can work well, especially if I can hold off on making ceiling cutouts. I appreciate the links, I'll read through them for sure.

How about Brands these days. I'm sure they're all pretty good, but is there any to avoid? Anything you are partial to? I'm not short on money, but I dont need super high end if you catch my drift. Just good quality and enough to make me smile.

Thanks again!
So, the best Atmos experiences are delivered by in-ceiling / on-ceiling speakers (my preference is in-ceiling), rather than bouncing the sound, so if you are willing to go that route, it will be superior. More work, obviously! But the bounce method ranges from O.K., to not good, based on my readings. I don't think I've read a single case of somebody WOW'd by the bounce method, though I'd imagine there are examples.

3.1 can deliver a very satisfying experience, and although I have a 7.2.4 system, I often run in 3.2.0 - granted, not with Atmos content, but with day to day TV and such. So, it'd for sure be a good place to start. You can add surrounds or Atmos later as money, time, circumstances permit.

90 degrees for the side surrounds is not ideal, you're right - but, I think it is better than not having them. Even moving them a bit further forward than 90 might be better than 90. Important thing is that they are far enough away from the listeners so that you minimize localization.As to whether or not you re-orient the space - this really depends on how serious or casual you are about things. So starting small (3.1, or 3.2 ) would give you a pretty good taste of things - and if this is sounds good, you could then consider going to the next step which might be the room reorientation and addition of surrounds. But with that 15 feet of wall, and seating at 11 feet - it seems like you might be able to get the correct angles, or at least better? (A room diagram would be helpful if you can do a quick sketch even....)

ALSO - to consider, if you go Atmos - the clear winner at this point is 4 speakers vs. 2 vs. 0. IF, IF, IF you can - go for 4, but you'll need to factor placement into any possible future re-orientation of the space. The problem with 2 speakers (if they are in-ceiling installs) is that if you decide to upgrade to 4, the original two need to get moved, and those holes patched up or something. So, if you're convinced of only 2, that's O.K. - but if think you might expand - I'd say don't think about it, just do it up front. 2 speakers will get you that 3rd dimension, but 4 will more effectively deliver the experience of sound moving from front to back, not just side to side, gives you better x,y effect in that layer.

It does sound like though from your last post as compared to your first post that you are evolving your position about more complex installs, which I think is good! You say you like movies - so the important focus for you should be 2 things - a high quality center channel speaker (and preferably a decently matched set of L/R speakers - though many will argue that this "matching" is not that critical, I argue that it is for the front sound stage), and a high quality subwoofer (or two....). You have a decently sized space. Not that one subwoofer couldn't work, but multiple subs often have the advantage of smoothing out the low frequency across a greater listening area. A good portion of the budget should be set for sub(s). WHICH you go with with depend of course on your listening tatses (movie genres) and space availability as well as aesthetics.

As far as brands and speaker types are concerned, of course your budget matters, but listening preferences and aesthetics plays into it. Are you a LOUD listener, are you into music, or really more just the home theater, and so on. My recommendation is to get out there and listen to what local places have to offer, hopefully there is something - see if there might be a sound signature that you like. Be cautious of what salespeople have to say - doesn't mean they are all full of it, but don't take what they say to the bank necessarily. For subwoofers, again this will depend, but I'd steer clear of the big speaker brand subs (like Klipsch, Paradigm, B&W, DefTec) and go for an ID brand. Not that the others don't make decent subs, but you'll get much better bang for your buck out of brands like SVS, HSU Research, Rhythmik, to name some of the more prominent ones.

MOST IMPORTANTLY - Take your time - no need to rush, do your studying and ask lots of questions. You're in the right place. I might not be the person that can answer all of the questions (probably not!) - but somebody here, or several somebodys will no doubt be able to help. You will get a lot of advice, some of that will not always agree - get as many pieces together as you can - and then come to the conclusion you feel is best for your situation. Enjoy the journey.
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7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #6 of 40 Old 12-29-2018, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I dont know if you can see this sketch, let me know if you cant. It might be tough to read but I whipped it up quickly. I'll rework it if you need more info.

After reading through some things, I may get it started with a 3.1 until I figure out if I want to reorient the room. I could place the tv over the mantle but I worry that it's a bit too tall. Where the tv sits now any front stage speakers would be perfectly at ear level and the viewing angle is perfect. Theres plenty of room on either side of the tv stand (which is a cabinet that's about a foot shorter than the couch) and I haven't mounted the tv on the wall yet. I'm thinking 3.1 will take care of immediate needs until I figure out where I'm going to make room modifications. I can take care of atmos at a later time I guess after I decide where to cut out in ceiling speakers.

Do you think 5.1 is doable with this sketch? I dont have a lot of room on either side of the couch due to mantle (speaker could sit on top but is about 1ft above ear level) and the front door but there is space there for something. I have to keep the tv on this wall as there is a big window behind the couch.

In terms of listening preferences, I dont like LOUD. I like quality and the feeling a good sub makes, I'd prefer clear dialogue and crisp sounds as opposed to having to turn down the volume. I love a good action movie and horror, but equally like a thriller or detective movie. I dont really watch too many sports, but if I do its baseball and football.

So far, based on what I've been reading, I'm looking at a Onkyo 7.2/9.2 receiver with Elac debut 2.0 or similar front and center. I'm willing to jump higher if it's in the ballpark. Ill have to go visit some show rooms and better feel for it, same with subs. I know JLA from my car stereo days, but they're definitely up there in cost.

I'll definitely be doing a lot of planning, and you are extremely helpful so far. I might have had a completely overdone and useless system before I stopped and posted the question lol.
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post #7 of 40 Old 12-29-2018, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I cant see the attachment. Will post a link to the sketch after I get my fifth post here.
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post #8 of 40 Old 12-30-2018, 10:54 AM
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I dont know if you can see this sketch, let me know if you cant. It might be tough to read but I whipped it up quickly. I'll rework it if you need more info.
O.K., got the sketch! That gives a much better understanding, I actually had it visualized differently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4touchdownbundy View Post
After reading through some things, I may get it started with a 3.1 until I figure out if I want to reorient the room. I could place the tv over the mantle but I worry that it's a bit too tall. Where the tv sits now any front stage speakers would be perfectly at ear level and the viewing angle is perfect. Theres plenty of room on either side of the tv stand (which is a cabinet that's about a foot shorter than the couch) and I haven't mounted the tv on the wall yet. I'm thinking 3.1 will take care of immediate needs until I figure out where I'm going to make room modifications. I can take care of atmos at a later time I guess after I decide where to cut out in ceiling speakers.
Yep, I think this would be a good place to start while you think through the rest of the system. (And if you decide to just hold at 3.1, that's fine too!) I would not place the TV over the mantle. A lot of folks do, but unless your seating is back far enough, it could amount to some neck strain. (A friend of mine had done this, and it really was awful, for me anyway). I think where your TV is now is fine. One thing to be aware of - the back right corner - tight for a floor stander - you can do it, I've been similarly forced to do so, and it's not the end of the world, but it's not optimal. Still, it is what it is! This will also dig into the available space for subwoofer(s), as I'm seeing it, the sub would likely go on the left side of the TV stand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4touchdownbundy View Post
Do you think 5.1 is doable with this sketch? I dont have a lot of room on either side of the couch due to mantle (speaker could sit on top but is about 1ft above ear level) and the front door but there is space there for something. I have to keep the tv on this wall as there is a big window behind the couch.
I do think it is doable - keep in mind, short of a perfect room, everything is a bit of a compromise. What I might consider - looks like you've got a bit of wall between the windows behind the couch - possible location for 2 small wall-mounted satellites that you could do on adjustable mounts to allow you some aim control. And although it might be aesthetically off, I'd pull that couch forward off the wall maybe a foot or two if you can, put some distance between you and said speakers if you went that route. What I would do is get a pair of speakers (preferably something returnable), some cheap speaker wire, borrow a couple of friends or family members to use as free, temporary speaker stands/wall mounts - and just see what you think. Allows you to experiment a bit with aiming and placement. You could go anywhere from ear level to higher up on the wall and aimed down, and so on. If you think it remotely sounds good, then you could go for the permanent install and do a nice wiring job. It can be more challenging on exterior walls if you want to run in wall wiring, but it can be done.

I do think in this config, an x.x.2 system for Atmos is probably the way to go with the two heights slightly in front of your listening position. If you oriented the other way, you could do 4, but if you keep this orientation, it'd be more challenging to accommodate them spatially.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4touchdownbundy View Post
In terms of listening preferences, I dont like LOUD. I like quality and the feeling a good sub makes, I'd prefer clear dialogue and crisp sounds as opposed to having to turn down the volume. I love a good action movie and horror, but equally like a thriller or detective movie. I dont really watch too many sports, but if I do its baseball and football.

So far, based on what I've been reading, I'm looking at a Onkyo 7.2/9.2 receiver with Elac debut 2.0 or similar front and center. I'm willing to jump higher if it's in the ballpark. Ill have to go visit some show rooms and better feel for it, same with subs. I know JLA from my car stereo days, but they're definitely up there in cost.

I'll definitely be doing a lot of planning, and you are extremely helpful so far. I might have had a completely overdone and useless system before I stopped and posted the question lol.
If you did decide to install the surrounds and stick with 2 overheads for Atmos, you can get away with a 7-channel receiver of some flavor, save you some $$$ that you can invest in a nice subwoofer or speakers. Do get out an listen to whatever you can - and depending on where you are, this may or may not offer a good selection. My local Fry's does sell Elac, but I've never given them a listen. It's a popular speaker.

Just pay close attention to return policies, and if you can buy local, great! But don't be forced into local offerings if nothing appeals to you just for the sake of getting something. If you go online, look for companies that have solid in home trial period policies and shipping either cheap or free (both ways!). Crutchfield is one that comes to mind. Might not have the cheapest prices, but it's a solid company with good policies.

Some other brands to consider, Emotiva, Chane, RSL Speakers to name a few more. JLA as you mentioned is still a big name in subwoofers for sure, but pricey! (Very good stuff though.) Plenty of less expensive ones though that really perform.

Receivers are enough to drive a person nuts! SO many options. But determining the max. number of channels you want is the best place to start - then begin comparing the offerings from various companies like Onkyo, Dennon, Yamaha - and see what other features about them that you find useful or appealing. Here's a good place to peruse, can often find good deals on refurbs (full warranty):

http://www.accessories4less.com/

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #9 of 40 Old 12-30-2018, 05:04 PM
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first, if i'm off, it's only because you remind me a lot of myself several years ago, and i'm assuming you're about to make the same mistakes i did. I found i got sucked in a lot to the audiophile expectations, and even though most of friends would say i'm super picky (if not a bit of a dick), in terms of 'audiophiles' i'm a beer and pizza kind of guy. I have listened to some expensive, like 3x the down payment on my house expensive, systems and i honestly just don't get it. There is a MASSIVE difference in my ears between a cheap system and a mid tier system. but the difference beyond that is either too dependent on the room, or pure snake oil for the average ears. At a $3000 budget, you won't be getting into these ultra high end systems but it's worth noting that $3000 can probably get you 95% of the performance as a blank cheque could (if you're limited to no changes to the room itself). plenty of people will disagree with this, and it's probably true for them. I just think it's an expensive lesson to learn, and if you don't hate what you hear, you probably won't love spending 10grand extra for a small improvement in performance.

anyway...

i would start by auditioning some speakers. Look for some smaller bookshelves, being in a living room you want something less obvious. This is one area i massively screwed up. I had 5ft tall towers and they didn't actually sound any better than similarly priced bookshelves. I assumed bigger was better, but in the 'value price' range it's far more about the quality, which seems more related to $ than size. But don't assume more money always means better quality. go out and listen to as much as you can. Speakers are THE MOST IMPORTANT part, for many reasons. But mostly because, if you buy them properly, they will never become obsolete. Speakers only get replaced but you want to buy better speakers, never because they are no longer compatible with current tech. Do NOT cut corners here, but if you do, buy fewer speakers, and plan to add more later. It's a lot more efficient(value wise) to add speakers later than to replace low quality speakers with better ones. So start with the speakers, because how much you end up spending will dictate the budget for the rest of the system.

receivers... i may get some heat for this, but i honestly think at this point, the brand doesn't matter. with the level of auto-correction out there today, they all end up sounding pretty much the same. Pick the receiver that offers the features you want at the lowest price. The only caveat i would add is to do a little research to make sure there are no known compatibility issues with your current gear. It seems like every now and then some specific product(like an apple tv, or xbox, or whatever) just doesn't seem to function properly with a certain line of receivers. With your budget, i would not suggest planning for a 'full' atmos set up, and despite your best intentions, receivers are consumable tech. if you buy good speakers, you can use them for the next 50yrs (maybe having to add a few more along the way, but they don't become 'obsolete').I have a receiver in my room that still works awesome, but it only has s-video inputs so it's completely useless as the center of a system today. with this in mind, i say buy a decent 7ch receiver, set up a 5.1 or 7.1 system and enjoy. I have tried atmos with 5.1.2 and i found it quite underwhelming. I'm still a massive fan of atmos, but i believe it really NEEDS at least 4 overhead speakers, and i'm not willing to give up the 7 base layer channels to get it. In summary, i think 7.1.4 is the minimum for atmos to be worth any extra effort/money.

My keep it simple advice:
-plan to spend around 300-400 on a mid-tier 7ch receiver from yamaha, sony, pioneer, onkyo, or denon.
-audition some bookshelf speakers, figure on spending 1000-1500 for the set. Your choice if you want 5.1 or 7.1
-subs could be an entire thread on their own, and some bass enthusiasts remind me of wine afficianados. in the end, i don't think this is something you can 'learn', either you already know you're a bass freak, or you're not. Assuming you're not, budget yourself about 500 for a 10" or 12" sub
-you will also need to spend some money on speaker wires and interconnects. For anything digital, grab some cheap cables from monoprice or amazon. speaker wire can have an impact if you go too thin/cheap. Often the difference between cheap or expensive wire is the flexibility, if you have tight corners, and want to completely hide the wire, spend the extra. Otherwise, i would suggest a MIN of 14 awg wire, bump it up to 12 awg to be safe. You could end up spending 100-200 on wires, so it needs to be included in the budget.
-that leaves you around $400 in 'reserve'. you don't HAVE to spend it, but at least it's there if you decide it's worth upgrading something along the way.

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post #10 of 40 Old 12-30-2018, 09:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Man I'm so pissed. I had a nice typed up response that timed out. I hate tablets at times. Ill have to get back to you guys from my pc. Thanks though, all really great info!
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post #11 of 40 Old 12-30-2018, 09:23 PM
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Some great advice so far. Based on my experience, I would agree that if you're going to do atmos, you really need 4 speakers. So, if you think you might want to go that route in the future, it makes sense to purchase a 9 channel AVR, and preferably one that will support 11 channels with the addition of an amplifier. The Denon AVR-X4400H is a good example. And as far as speakers, I agree with others that some good bookshelf speakers can work well in your space, as long as you have a decent subwoofer to handle the lower frequencies. I really like the Polk LSiM 703's, and they are pretty reasonably priced at around $600 for a pair nowadays (they are phasing out the current LSiM line in anticipation of a new release I believe, so there are some great deals to be had). HSU and SVS make excellent subs for a reasonable price, so you should check those out for sure. I went with an SVS SB-2000 and have been very happy, but probably would have considered the ported model (PB-2000) if I had the space for it (the SB-2000 was small enough to fit in my media cabinet).
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post #12 of 40 Old 12-30-2018, 09:31 PM
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And just for fun, here's a few pics of my setup. Maybe you'll get one or two ideas that can help you with some of your decisions.


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post #13 of 40 Old 12-31-2018, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Yep, I think this would be a good place to start while you think through the rest of the system. (And if you decide to just hold at 3.1, that's fine too!) I would not place the TV over the mantle. A lot of folks do, but unless your seating is back far enough, it could amount to some neck strain. (A friend of mine had done this, and it really was awful, for me anyway). I think where your TV is now is fine. One thing to be aware of - the back right corner - tight for a floor stander - you can do it, I've been similarly forced to do so, and it's not the end of the world, but it's not optimal. Still, it is what it is! This will also dig into the available space for subwoofer(s), as I'm seeing it, the sub would likely go on the left side of the TV stand?
I don't think I'll be putting the TV over the mantle, I really don't like having to look up at a TV regardless if it's tilted or not. Where it's at is the best spot despite some shortcomings. I will have space for a sub on the left of the stand, if I go with slimmer towers I will be able to slide that stand over a bit. One thing you can't see are the doors for cabinets on the mantle, but there is definitely room there on the top right for a tower. I could also go bookshelf speakers on the TV stand, but as I'm looking at stores, I realize they are actually pretty big. I can go with smaller ones but I think towers would work better now that I look at them.


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I do think it is doable - keep in mind, short of a perfect room, everything is a bit of a compromise. What I might consider - looks like you've got a bit of wall between the windows behind the couch - possible location for 2 small wall-mounted satellites that you could do on adjustable mounts to allow you some aim control. And although it might be aesthetically off, I'd pull that couch forward off the wall maybe a foot or two if you can, put some distance between you and said speakers if you went that route. What I would do is get a pair of speakers (preferably something returnable), some cheap speaker wire, borrow a couple of friends or family members to use as free, temporary speaker stands/wall mounts - and just see what you think. Allows you to experiment a bit with aiming and placement. You could go anywhere from ear level to higher up on the wall and aimed down, and so on. If you think it remotely sounds good, then you could go for the permanent install and do a nice wiring job. It can be more challenging on exterior walls if you want to run in wall wiring, but it can be done.


I do think in this config, an x.x.2 system for Atmos is probably the way to go with the two heights slightly in front of your listening position. If you oriented the other way, you could do 4, but if you keep this orientation, it'd be more challenging to accommodate them spatially.
I don't think I will be pulling the couch off the wall mainly because of the aesthetics. As it's a reclining couch, it would look a little weird. However, after looking at some setups, I believe I do have a little space besides the windows to wall mount speakers. However, until I plan out the build, I'm going to hold off on mounting and just make sure the front stage is setup well. If I get that right I can start looking at atmos and where to best place surrounds. That's a good idea to get somebody to pretend like they're stands so I can get the orientation right before I start getting into the walls/ceilings.

[/QUOTE]If you did decide to install the surrounds and stick with 2 overheads for Atmos, you can get away with a 7-channel receiver of some flavor, save you some $$$ that you can invest in a nice subwoofer or speakers. Do get out an listen to whatever you can - and depending on where you are, this may or may not offer a good selection. My local Fry's does sell Elac, but I've never given them a listen. It's a popular speaker.

Just pay close attention to return policies, and if you can buy local, great! But don't be forced into local offerings if nothing appeals to you just for the sake of getting something. If you go online, look for companies that have solid in home trial period policies and shipping either cheap or free (both ways!). Crutchfield is one that comes to mind. Might not have the cheapest prices, but it's a solid company with good policies.

Some other brands to consider, Emotiva, Chane, RSL Speakers to name a few more. JLA as you mentioned is still a big name in subwoofers for sure, but pricey! (Very good stuff though.) Plenty of less expensive ones though that really perform.
Receivers are enough to drive a person nuts! SO many options. But determining the max. number of channels you want is the best place to start - then begin comparing the offerings from various companies like Onkyo, Dennon, Yamaha - and see what other features about them that you find useful or appealing. Here's a good place to peruse, can often find good deals on refurbs (full warranty):[/QUOTE]


Thanks for that link, add to my list of places to dissappear into haha. At this point in time, I'm leaning toward in ceiling speakers, but not until I get the basics done. My living room isn't going to be changing drastically, it's really the only orientation that will work as it's not like I'm going to be using the other rooms for movie watching. I'm also planning for having to return some items potentially, but hopefully not. I love Crutchfield, they've done me well in the past. I used to frequent their store in Cerritos when I was building car stereos twenty years ago. Technology has come a long way though and I've been out of the game so it's fun getting to know everything all over again. I have a nice gift card for best buy, think I'll be snagging my receiver from them today! Haven't decided between 7 channel or 9 yet, but I'm not afraid to get more than what I need. Learned that lesson the hard way with my truck.
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post #14 of 40 Old 12-31-2018, 10:12 AM
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I don't think I'll be putting the TV over the mantle, I really don't like having to look up at a TV regardless if it's tilted or not. Where it's at is the best spot despite some shortcomings. I will have space for a sub on the left of the stand, if I go with slimmer towers I will be able to slide that stand over a bit. One thing you can't see are the doors for cabinets on the mantle, but there is definitely room there on the top right for a tower. I could also go bookshelf speakers on the TV stand, but as I'm looking at stores, I realize they are actually pretty big. I can go with smaller ones but I think towers would work better now that I look at them.

Another option you do have is on-wall - it's a good compromise of space savings without necessarily having to compromise performance, depending of course on the speaker. Keeps your floors and furniture speaker free. Often have a high WAF. Just a thought!


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I don't think I will be pulling the couch off the wall mainly because of the aesthetics. As it's a reclining couch, it would look a little weird. However, after looking at some setups, I believe I do have a little space besides the windows to wall mount speakers. However, until I plan out the build, I'm going to hold off on mounting and just make sure the front stage is setup well. If I get that right I can start looking at atmos and where to best place surrounds. That's a good idea to get somebody to pretend like they're stands so I can get the orientation right before I start getting into the walls/ceilings.


I think this is a solid plan!


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Thanks for that link, add to my list of places to dissappear into haha. At this point in time, I'm leaning toward in ceiling speakers, but not until I get the basics done. My living room isn't going to be changing drastically, it's really the only orientation that will work as it's not like I'm going to be using the other rooms for movie watching. I'm also planning for having to return some items potentially, but hopefully not. I love Crutchfield, they've done me well in the past. I used to frequent their store in Cerritos when I was building car stereos twenty years ago. Technology has come a long way though and I've been out of the game so it's fun getting to know everything all over again. I have a nice gift card for best buy, think I'll be snagging my receiver from them today! Haven't decided between 7 channel or 9 yet, but I'm not afraid to get more than what I need. Learned that lesson the hard way with my truck.

Does your local BestBuy have a Magnolia center? It's a good place to start doing some auditions, keep in mind, they are salesmen. Keep us posted on what you find, and which receiver you select!
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post #15 of 40 Old 12-31-2018, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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first, if i'm off, it's only because you remind me a lot of myself several years ago, and i'm assuming you're about to make the same mistakes i did. I found i got sucked in a lot to the audiophile expectations, and even though most of friends would say i'm super picky (if not a bit of a dick), in terms of 'audiophiles' i'm a beer and pizza kind of guy. I have listened to some expensive, like 3x the down payment on my house expensive, systems and i honestly just don't get it. There is a MASSIVE difference in my ears between a cheap system and a mid tier system. but the difference beyond that is either too dependent on the room, or pure snake oil for the average ears. At a $3000 budget, you won't be getting into these ultra high end systems but it's worth noting that $3000 can probably get you 95% of the performance as a blank cheque could (if you're limited to no changes to the room itself). plenty of people will disagree with this, and it's probably true for them. I just think it's an expensive lesson to learn, and if you don't hate what you hear, you probably won't love spending 10grand extra for a small improvement in performance.
I'm thinking a lot along these lines. I'm definitely not going berserk, I just want nice sound and have a little fun along the way. There's no way I'm going to be going overboard because it's just not worth it to me, I spend my time and money elsewhere too. I am approaching this like I approach buying golf clubs. I buy them over time, and I get the clubs I want this way. This allows me to buy what I want at the given time and stop when I feel like I've got what I need for now.


[/QUOTE]i would start by auditioning some speakers. Look for some smaller bookshelves, being in a living room you want something less obvious. This is one area i massively screwed up. I had 5ft tall towers and they didn't actually sound any better than similarly priced bookshelves. I assumed bigger was better, but in the 'value price' range it's far more about the quality, which seems more related to $ than size. But don't assume more money always means better quality. go out and listen to as much as you can. Speakers are THE MOST IMPORTANT part, for many reasons. But mostly because, if you buy them properly, they will never become obsolete. Speakers only get replaced but you want to buy better speakers, never because they are no longer compatible with current tech. Do NOT cut corners here, but if you do, buy fewer speakers, and plan to add more later. It's a lot more efficient(value wise) to add speakers later than to replace low quality speakers with better ones. So start with the speakers, because how much you end up spending will dictate the budget for the rest of the system.[/QUOTE]

Smaller bookshelves could work, and I am also looking at towers. I don't think I want the larger bookshelves sitting on stands, it would look awkward. I have been considering the aesthetics as well, I don't want huge towers or gigantic pieces of furniture. I want to keep it looking at simple as possible. Thanks for the tip on receivers, I will get enough receiver but not so much that I start cutting corners on speakers. As mentioned earlier, I think the idea of going with incremental quality purchases is the way to go. If I was building a brand new house with a theater in it I'd probably be buying more at once, but in this case I have time and I have the patience.


[/quote]My keep it simple advice:
-plan to spend around 300-400 on a mid-tier 7ch receiver from yamaha, sony, pioneer, onkyo, or denon.
-audition some bookshelf speakers, figure on spending 1000-1500 for the set. Your choice if you want 5.1 or 7.1
-subs could be an entire thread on their own, and some bass enthusiasts remind me of wine afficianados. in the end, i don't think this is something you can 'learn', either you already know you're a bass freak, or you're not. Assuming you're not, budget yourself about 500 for a 10" or 12" sub
-you will also need to spend some money on speaker wires and interconnects. For anything digital, grab some cheap cables from monoprice or amazon. speaker wire can have an impact if you go too thin/cheap. Often the difference between cheap or expensive wire is the flexibility, if you have tight corners, and want to completely hide the wire, spend the extra. Otherwise, i would suggest a MIN of 14 awg wire, bump it up to 12 awg to be safe. You could end up spending 100-200 on wires, so it needs to be included in the budget.
-that leaves you around $400 in 'reserve'. you don't HAVE to spend it, but at least it's there if you decide it's worth upgrading something along the way.[/QUOTE]

This is a good guide for a 3K budget. I'll probably stick to this as much as possible. I might go a little more though lol, I picked 3K for talking purposes and as a ballpark. I have room to maneuver if I feel I want to get a little more receiver, or a little nicer sub. Definitely not crazy though, I don't need 40K Magicos. Thanks for the guidance though, this is really a great forum to help people like me who are interested but have a hard time knowing where to start.

Also learning how to quote here, man I suck at it!
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post #16 of 40 Old 12-31-2018, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Another option you do have is on-wall - it's a good compromise of space savings without necessarily having to compromise performance, depending of course on the speaker. Keeps your floors and furniture speaker free. Often have a high WAF. Just a thought!
I think for the back left and right I'd have to go on-wall. Are you thinking the front left and right?


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Does your local BestBuy have a Magnolia center? It's a good place to start doing some auditions, keep in mind, they are salesmen. Keep us posted on what you find, and which receiver you select!
They do. I actually live not far from the South Bay in Belmont Heights. There's one in Cerritos that has a Magnolia show room. I'm not sure about Signal Hill though, haven't been there in a long time.

Oh Crap was thinking South Bay socal lol.
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post #17 of 40 Old 12-31-2018, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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And just for fun, here's a few pics of my setup. Maybe you'll get one or two ideas that can help you with some of your decisions.



Thanks for the images. I have more space but also more furniture in my way, but how do you like the surrounds? I think if I were to wall mount I would be able to have them sit only slightly further back and out so if those sound good to you then I think I should be okay.
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post #18 of 40 Old 12-31-2018, 12:18 PM
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I think for the back left and right I'd have to go on-wall. Are you thinking the front left and right?

Oh, for the surrounds for sure - I think the on-wall option is a good one. But yes, I was also suggesting you could consider for your L/R (and even L/C/R) if space was starting to become an issue or if you didn't wan to rely on the existing furniture for support (like the bookshelves on the TV cabinet).

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post #19 of 40 Old 12-31-2018, 12:22 PM
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Thanks for the images. I have more space but also more furniture in my way, but how do you like the surrounds? I think if I were to wall mount I would be able to have them sit only slightly further back and out so if those sound good to you then I think I should be okay.

I absolutely love my 703's as rear surrounds. They are flat out amazing!


And for wall mounting these, or any other large bookshelf speaker, I would recommend the B-Tech BT77's.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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post #20 of 40 Old 12-31-2018, 05:14 PM
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Some great advice so far. Based on my experience, I would agree that if you're going to do atmos, you really need 4 speakers. So, if you think you might want to go that route in the future, it makes sense to purchase a 9 channel AVR, and preferably one that will support 11 channels with the addition of an amplifier. The Denon AVR-X4400H is a good example.
i think this really depends on the time line. my plan is still to go with a 7.1.4 setup up, the speakers are already installed, but when i bought my avr there was a MASSIVE price gap between a decent 7ch and the world's cheapest 9ch avr. like 1000bux or more! At the time, i 'correctly' assumed that it would actually be cheaper for me to buy a 7ch avr, and upgrade in 2 or 3 years. Today, i can buy the denon 4400 for around 1200CDN, which is about 600 cheaper than the cheapest 9ch avr 3yrs ago when i bought my pioneer 1130.

obviously, the gap is shrinking, and depending on time lines it might be an obvious choice(get 9ch now if less than 2yrs, get 7ch now if more than 4). I just don't think it's wise to plan on any avr lasting more than about 5yrs, and the price of 9-11ch avr's is decreasing every year.

normally, i'd be very against buying something cheap and having to upgrade right away, but in this case, it MIGHT not be such a bad idea. I've ended up pretty satisfied with the 7ch avr i purchased, and i feel better about buying a new 9ch avr for $1000, than having a 3yr old 9ch avr i spent $1600 on(i'm using $1600 because i paid 600 for the 1130, so this would be the same total cost, but in truth, there was nothing available at 1600 3 yrs ago)

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post #21 of 40 Old 12-31-2018, 07:05 PM
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i think this really depends on the time line. my plan is still to go with a 7.1.4 setup up, the speakers are already installed, but when i bought my avr there was a MASSIVE price gap between a decent 7ch and the world's cheapest 9ch avr. like 1000bux or more! At the time, i 'correctly' assumed that it would actually be cheaper for me to buy a 7ch avr, and upgrade in 2 or 3 years. Today, i can buy the denon 4400 for around 1200CDN, which is about 600 cheaper than the cheapest 9ch avr 3yrs ago when i bought my pioneer 1130.

obviously, the gap is shrinking, and depending on time lines it might be an obvious choice(get 9ch now if less than 2yrs, get 7ch now if more than 4). I just don't think it's wise to plan on any avr lasting more than about 5yrs, and the price of 9-11ch avr's is decreasing every year.

normally, i'd be very against buying something cheap and having to upgrade right away, but in this case, it MIGHT not be such a bad idea. I've ended up pretty satisfied with the 7ch avr i purchased, and i feel better about buying a new 9ch avr for $1000, than having a 3yr old 9ch avr i spent $1600 on(i'm using $1600 because i paid 600 for the 1130, so this would be the same total cost, but in truth, there was nothing available at 1600 3 yrs ago)

It's really hard to argue one way or the other. I did what you said and bought a 7.2 channel Denon that was on sale (under 300) to see what atmos was all about, but once I had 2 atmos speakers, I knew I wouldn't be happy until I had 4 atmos speakers in place, so I could have saved some money and trouble in the long run by just going right to the 9.2 channel AVR in the first place.
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post #22 of 40 Old 12-31-2018, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh, for the surrounds for sure - I think the on-wall option is a good one. But yes, I was also suggesting you could consider for your L/R (and even L/C/R) if space was starting to become an issue or if you didn't wan to rely on the existing furniture for support (like the bookshelves on the TV cabinet).
So I went to magnolia and I'm going to have them stop by and make recommendations. Just looking for ideas at this point, I know they are salesman looking for commission but figure it wouldn't hurt to get some ideas. I dont thinm I'm starving for space, but some creativity will help. Plus, it's free for them to come over, so no obligation there.
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post #23 of 40 Old 12-31-2018, 08:47 PM
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So I went to magnolia and I'm going to have them stop by and make recommendations. Just looking for ideas at this point, I know they are salesman looking for commission but figure it wouldn't hurt to get some ideas. I dont thinm I'm starving for space, but some creativity will help. Plus, it's free for them to come over, so no obligation there.
Absolutely! It can't hurt to have another pair of eyes on the space. Diagrams over the internet are one thing, seeing the real deal in person can give a different perspective. Salesmen can be hit and miss, especially at big box stores, but some of them actually do know a good deal. Plus, you've got this forum to bounce their ideas off of for additional opinions on their suggestions.

Did you audition anything while you were there, or any receivers catch your fancy?
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Absolutely! It can't hurt to have another pair of eyes on the space. Diagrams over the internet are one thing, seeing the real deal in person can give a different perspective. Salesmen can be hit and miss, especially at big box stores, but some of them actually do know a good deal. Plus, you've got this forum to bounce their ideas off of for additional opinions on their suggestions.

Did you audition anything while you were there, or any receivers catch your fancy?
They were pushing Pioneer elite l503, which I know is pretty dang good, but perhaps there are others that will do just as good of a job. Marantz looked the best along with the elite. I liked their Klipsch towers and the one that caught my ear was the def tech center channel cs 9060, sounded pretty nice. I didn't like their towers though, wish they didn't have all that fabric around them. Looks just like a scratching post and I'm sure my cat would agree. They had klipsch subs out but they were 15" and pretty big. Sounded amazing though. Also listened to some smaller subs and realized how much I enjoyed having some power behind that bass.
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post #25 of 40 Old 12-31-2018, 09:27 PM
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They were pushing Pioneer elite l503, which I know is pretty dang good, but perhaps there are others that will do just as good of a job. Marantz looked the best along with the elite. I liked their Klipsch towers and the one that caught my ear was the def tech center channel cs 9060, sounded pretty nice. I didn't like their towers though, wish they didn't have all that fabric around them. Looks just like a scratching post and I'm sure my cat would agree. They had klipsch subs out but they were 15" and pretty big. Sounded amazing though. Also listened to some smaller subs and realized how much I enjoyed having some power behind that bass.
My personal preference would be for the Marantz of the two brands. But that's me. (It's both an aesthetic and a room EQ thing.) Do some good listening with the Klipsch - they seem to be a love / hate kind of speaker with a lot of folks, with not much in between! I like their look, but I do find them a bit harsh, and people will often complain of fatiguing. Some people really like them though. One of my co-workers has a pair of Klipsch, I can't recall the model, and he loves them.

Cool! Glad you had a chance to get out and do some looking and listening! Your journey has begun.....!
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post #26 of 40 Old 12-31-2018, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
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My personal preference would be for the Marantz of the two brands. But that's me. (It's both an aesthetic and a room EQ thing.) Do some good listening with the Klipsch - they seem to be a love / hate kind of speaker with a lot of folks, with not much in between! I like their look, but I do find them a bit harsh, and people will often complain of fatiguing. Some people really like them though. One of my co-workers has a pair of Klipsch, I can't recall the model, and he loves them.

Cool! Glad you had a chance to get out and do some looking and listening! Your journey has begun.....!
Shoot, after listening to my tv everything sounds good Haha. But more to the point, let the games begin. Thankfully my wife is pretty into it too! What a woman. Anyway, thanks again for all your help so far. Gave me a lot of ideas and things to think about. I'll let you know what Magnolia tells me on friday and see what you think.
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post #27 of 40 Old 01-01-2019, 02:32 PM
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It's really hard to argue one way or the other. I did what you said and bought a 7.2 channel Denon that was on sale (under 300) to see what atmos was all about, but once I had 2 atmos speakers, I knew I wouldn't be happy until I had 4 atmos speakers in place, so I could have saved some money and trouble in the long run by just going right to the 9.2 channel AVR in the first place.
my point was that it's not an obvious answer. with speakers, i think it's true about 99% of the time that you are better off buying fewer high quality speakers and adding to that, then to buy a complete system and replace it later.

with avr's you have to put some thought into it. If i had not bought the pioneer 1130, i'd have spent more for a SC95 than it would be total for the 1130 and a new lx503(although VERY close). i suppose if i knew right away, then me having to buy an 1130 and sc95 in the same year would have been the most expensive option, but then why not return the 7.2 avr?

so again, there's certainly more benefit to this if you are thinking long term down the road replacement(over 3yrs i say it's a no brainer) but becomes a lot more questionable in the short term(under 1 year, no way!). If he's buying 11 speakers from the get go, or plans to have them hooked up in the next 1-2yrs, then i'd say go for the 9ch avr up front. but i don't think it's wise to think any avr bought today isn't going to be the best option 3 or 4 yrs from now, so it's not worth buying anything you can't take advantage of right away.

but i guess the other thing going for me was i was still constructing the theater. i really only 'completed' it a few months ago. so while i bought the receiver nov 2015, it's only been the last few months that i've really looked seriously at upgrading, since i'm finally using it pretty often.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4touchdownbundy View Post
They were pushing Pioneer elite l503, which I know is pretty dang good, but perhaps there are others that will do just as good of a job. Marantz looked the best along with the elite. I liked their Klipsch towers and the one that caught my ear was the def tech center channel cs 9060, sounded pretty nice. I didn't like their towers though, wish they didn't have all that fabric around them. Looks just like a scratching post and I'm sure my cat would agree. They had klipsch subs out but they were 15" and pretty big. Sounded amazing though. Also listened to some smaller subs and realized how much I enjoyed having some power behind that bass.
The pioneer lx503 is about the cheapest avr that can process 11ch as you're going to find. so, it's unlikely your find something as good/better for less. the argument could be made that for a little more you can do better, but that's true of everything.

i tried looking up options on bestbuys US website, and it seems like prices are oddly different there (i mean i know they're cheaper, but the pioneer is far more cheaper than the rest). Anyway, you're now talking about the level of AVR that i've been keeping an eye on, and it seems like these are the main options. and let me blunt, while they all have different options, pros and cons, for ME I would purchase whatever one is the cheapest. I still feel that everyone of these is more than i personally need, as i've been very happy with the quality of my pioneer 1130, i just want processing for 7.1.4
-Pioneer LX-503
seems to be the cheapest MSRP option with support for 7.1.4. My only complaint is that every year since onkyo bought pioneer, there's been a little more onkyo, and a little less pioneer on the inside. You now have to move up to the 703 to get the D3 amps, which is a real shame. Unfortunately, if you go to last years model, you have to move up to 701 to get 11ch processing. so they added more channels, but lowered the quality when going from 502 to 503
-Denon 4500H
seems to consistently be near the cheapest option(4400h, and 4300h included) when on sale. reports say it shares a lot with the marantz 7013, but i can't really figure out how marantz and denon are sharing product. the 4500 and 7013 are almost 1000bux apart, and the 3500 and 6013 are two channels apart. so i guess it's not as simple as saying the marantz is a re-skinned denon or vice-versa
-Marantz 6013
definitely higher cost, but arguably not higher end. as reports suggest the 4500h from denon is more similar to the 7013, it should mean the 4500h is actually 'better' than the 6013. but again, this is far more complicated, and the actual differences will be quite small in practice, i'm sure. the 6012 is nearly identical, and currently in my market, there is a b-stock 6012 being sold that is the cheapest i have ever seen a brand new avr with 7.1.4 processing sell for. it's actually something i've very seriously considered buying several times, but i'm kind of stuck in this debate of whether i actually should upgrade my avr now, and i keep chickening out. it has however, become my new benchmark for what i consider a good price to pay(it is currently $850CDN, which is significantly better than the $1199CDN sale price for the 4400H that was the benchmark last year)
-Onkyo RZ730
far as i can tell it's onkyo's version of the lx503. there are some differences(all of which i consider pretty minor), but if you can find it cheaper than the lx503 i'd go for it.

Yamaha won't even let look at a receiver with 11ch processing unless you have a platinum card...

sounds like you might have some more expensive taste than i thought. Subs are out of wheelhouse, but i can say that you will get a LOT more for your money if you don't buy from bestbuy. Have a stroll in the subwoofer section here, i'm sure you'll see the same handful of subs being recommended, and any one of them is going to give you a lot more for your money than what bestbuy has to offer.

I've never been a fan of def tech(or rather i should say, i've never enjoyed listening to them. i was actually a huge fan before i heard them because they consistently got rave reviews in sound and vision magazine), but speakers are so personal, i find it hard to even make recommendations. but based on the experience you had, i think you'd be pretty wise to start with a 3.1 o 5.1 system and plan to grow. with this in mind, if you are unsure between towers and small bookshelf speakers, you could start with the bookshelf speakers up front, and if they aren't enough for you, move them to the rear when you buy the towers.
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Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1130K, 7.1/5.1.2 audio
Sources: HTPC, PS3, XBOX360, Wii
Control: Harmony One

Last edited by fierce_gt; 01-01-2019 at 02:36 PM.
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post #28 of 40 Old 01-01-2019, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
sounds like you might have some more expensive taste than i thought. Subs are out of wheelhouse, but i can say that you will get a LOT more for your money if you don't buy from bestbuy. Have a stroll in the subwoofer section here, i'm sure you'll see the same handful of subs being recommended, and any one of them is going to give you a lot more for your money than what bestbuy has to offer.

I've never been a fan of def tech(or rather i should say, i've never enjoyed listening to them. i was actually a huge fan before i heard them because they consistently got rave reviews in sound and vision magazine), but speakers are so personal, i find it hard to even make recommendations. but based on the experience you had, i think you'd be pretty wise to start with a 3.1 o 5.1 system and plan to grow. with this in mind, if you are unsure between towers and small bookshelf speakers, you could start with the bookshelf speakers up front, and if they aren't enough for you, move them to the rear when you buy the towers.
Thanks for the rundown on receivers. The lx503 just what the salesman was pushing, it also looks nice aesthetically to my eye. Its just my initial impression so far and not sure if I want to put that kind of money on a receiver yet. Seems like if I am looking to get into atmos id rather go with a 9 channel, but that remains to be a sure thing. Once I zero in on what my room can handle aesthetically and functionally I'll know more about what is worth the price. I'm having magnolia come by for recommendations, just to feel it out and so I can learn a thing or two. May or may not buy from them though. Yes, you're right though. My taste is a bit on the expensive side, but that's more because I won't let a couple hundred here or there away me too much. If we are talking a 1k difference on an individual component well then I would probably balk and rethink my build. I've set 3k as a target for talking purposes, I can easily go more or less depending on whether I feel its genuinely worth the build.

That's a really good idea regarding bookshelves, hadnt considered that. I will definitely be starting small and I haven't sampled a lot of speakers. The only one that really caught my ear was that def tech center channel, but still dont know if theres something better out there. If there is and I missed out on it I'm not the type to get flustered, I am sure I can spend an eternity looking but I'll call it quits when I find something I enjoy.
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post #29 of 40 Old 01-02-2019, 08:32 AM
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I dont know if you are willing to do it but you could do a diy set up and end up wit a amazing set up. Although a word of warning if you look in that section the subs start at 18" most the time and go up from there. But you can get some awesome stuff for 3k.
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post #30 of 40 Old 01-02-2019, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I dont know if you are willing to do it but you could do a diy set up and end up wit a amazing set up. Although a word of warning if you look in that section the subs start at 18" most the time and go up from there. But you can get some awesome stuff for 3k.
DIY as in build the cabinets myself? Probably not a good idea, couldn't cut a straight line if my life depended on it. I'd have a house looking like a Dr Seuss children's book. I can run wires and all that though for sure. I'll do as much DIY as I can.
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