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post #661 of 681 Old 01-11-2019, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Jdogger7 View Post
In that case, why not go with the best sealed sub available for precision and then use the crawson for the TR below 20hz? What would be missing? I am still learning this stuff, so bear with me if this is a stupid question.
At the most crucial frequency range of 12~25Hz for movies, a ported sub will have more than 2 times as much output and many times of TR compared with a sealed one of similar caliber.

Another problem is, with the actuators or transducers the effect is easily localized. If you put the Crowson below one of the legs, then you will be conscious of the effect coming from that leg. People who are not sitting on the chairs equipped with the Crowson will miss out. On the other hand, the TR from subwoofers envelops the room.

Then, some may not like the effect generated by the actuators or transducers. Some find them unnatural and gimmicky.

IIRC, your HT is 70% movie and on a basement with concrete slab. You want holy s-h-i-t, which comes from the output and the TR.

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Last edited by chucky7; 01-11-2019 at 03:42 PM.
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post #662 of 681 Old 01-11-2019, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Jdogger7 View Post
In that case, why not go with the best sealed sub available for precision and then use the crawson for the TR below 20hz? What would be missing? I am still learning this stuff, so bear with me if this is a stupid question.
Good question! The ported do have the edge in TR I think around port turn (in the comparisons I've done), even with the FR on the sealed sub raised up to match the ported sub down low, around 15-10hz port tune for example. But the differences between the TR of the two aren't as noticeable if Crowsons are in the mix. And especially not if you can run a sealed sub in the mix with the drivers right up close behind you. Total game changer even in a large room and can make you rethink if one should go the ported or sealed route.

The other day in one of the other threads (The Bass EQ thread), I was doing some testing in a scene in a movie called 'IT', (with BEQ of course from the Bass EQ thread ) where there is a really strong 12hz frequency that goes on for about 15-20 seconds. I run a few sealed 18's right behind my seats, as well as Crowson MA's. I was playing around having a lot fun on this for a while testing the differences in TR feel etc between each of them.

Surprisingly, the 2 VNF sealed subs (2 FF in the mix as well), were giving me about the exact same wobble feel and intensity as the Crowson MA's (which was way cool because Crowsons can bring on the TR wobble down this low and I had them cranked up pretty good). Without the Pressure and weight of course on the MA's, but can kind of trick you into thinking your getting a little bit down this low. I've been a long time user of VNF subs, (ported and sealed) and love what each can deliver like this in terms of TR. This comparison really drove home just how capable a sealed sub (at least when close behind) can be for TR down into the very deep areas of ULF. As much as a ported sub positioned this way around it's port tune? Probably not quite as much with matching FRs, but still great and probably a lot smaller foot print on the sealed cab that will take up less space. Combined with MA's (even if only farfield, but especially nearfield) it can be pretty crazy and not so much a big deal in the overall TR department if sealed is what one wants and likes.

As far as weight and pressure like Imureh was saying, so far I've found them to be pretty similar and is needed to go with the TR for a more realistic experience. But yeah like he was saying also, the FV's ported subs are pretty darn accurate. I've got the FV15HP and reminds me a lot of how my sealed subs sound, with a bit more thickness down low on the sealed but similar kind of detail and articulation.

If your a TR lover, I don't think you can go wrong with either if Crowsons are in the mix, and especially if you like using VNF (very near field) as well and closes the TR differences between the two pretty well (even with ported or sealed right behind you). The combo can probably give most people all the TR they care to have. I'm not trying to turn this into a VNF post, but wanted to mention it as its fair game if one is chasing TR and trying to decide if sealed or ported would better suit them, and not just in the TR department.

If one loves TR though and cant for whatever reason or doesn't won't to have Crowon MA's or VNF subs behind you in the mix, then ported is probably the better route to go if 'only' Farfield sub positions will be used.

Again, just my 2 cents and what I've found messing with it all.
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post #663 of 681 Old 01-11-2019, 12:51 PM
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Rythmic Audio L22, has anyone heard them if have any knowledge on this model..Wondering if 2 of these would do a better set up.then just running one bigger 15inch sub?
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post #664 of 681 Old 01-11-2019, 03:33 PM
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^^ Haven’t heard the L22 but almost can guarantee that 2 L22’s are better than one sealed 15” sub.
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post #665 of 681 Old 01-11-2019, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
At the most crucial frequency range of 12~25Hz for movies, a ported sub will have more than 2 times as much output and many times of TR compared with a sealed one of similar caliber.

Another problem is, with the actuators or transducers the effect is easily localized. If you put the Crowson below one of the legs, then you will be conscious of the effect coming from that leg. People who are not sitting on the chairs equipped with the Crowson will miss out. On the other hand, the TR from subwoofers envelops the room.

Then, some may not like the effect generated by the actuators or transducers. Some find them unnatural and gimmicky.

IIRC, your HT is 70% movie and on a basement with concrete slab. You want holy s-h-i-t, which comes from the output and the TR.
Very helpful. Thanks
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post #666 of 681 Old 01-11-2019, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post

If your a TR lover, I don't think you can go wrong with either if Crowsons are in the mix, and especially if you like using VNF (very near field) as well and closes the TR differences between the two pretty well (even with ported or sealed right behind you). The combo can probably give most people all the TR they care to have. I'm not trying to turn this into a VNF post, but wanted to mention it as its fair game if one is chasing TR and trying to decide if sealed or ported would better suit them, and not just in the TR department.

If one loves TR though and cant for whatever reason or doesn't won't to have Crowon MA's or VNF subs behind you in the mix, then ported is probably the better route to go if 'only' Farfield sub positions will be used.

Again, just my 2 cents and what I've found messing with it all.
This really gets me thinking about possibly adding something VNF. Thanks for the input!
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post #667 of 681 Old 01-11-2019, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ Haven’t heard the L22 but almost can guarantee that 2 L22’s are better than one sealed 15” sub.
I was thinking that the 2 would probably be better. I am still torn between ported and sealed subs. I actually listen to more music than movies..Read a lot of reviews and have narrowed down my choices. Was interested in the Fv15hp, and the F18 as well. Sadly the fv18.and the F25 are both to large for my space allowance. The 15 inch sealed rythmics also look like good options.
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post #668 of 681 Old 01-11-2019, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Cagayan kid View Post
I was thinking that the 2 would probably be better. I am still torn between ported and sealed subs. I actually listen to more music than movies..Read a lot of reviews and have narrowed down my choices. Was interested in the Fv15hp, and the F18 as well. Sadly the fv18.and the F25 are both to large for my space allowance. The 15 inch sealed rythmics also look like good options.
Hi,

A lot of people listen to music very happily with their ported subs, and Rythmik ported subwoofers sound much more like sealed subwoofers than is the case with some other ported subs. But, the Rythmik ported subs still have the low-frequency SPL advantage that sealed subs lack. I have read some of your questions on the Rythmik thread, and now with what you are saying here, I would advise you to get the biggest ported sub that you can accommodate. That sounds like the FV15HP. Later, you can add a second one. You will definitely want two identical subs, long-term.

You can certainly buy two lesser subs now, for more instant gratification, or you can take the long view. Most of the people who are responding to questions like yours have upgraded subwoofers at least once. Many may have upgraded several times. If you don't buy the most subwoofer that you can afford and accommodate now, you will almost certainly be back upgrading in a year or two, and perhaps it will take even less time than that. From everything you have said, I would recommend ported. I believe you will be very happy with an FV15HP.

Regards,
Mike
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post #669 of 681 Old 01-11-2019, 07:13 PM
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one thing with subs is that they all dont sound the same. if someone is used to car stereo subs or edm clubs I would not recommend rythmik subs as they are very low distortion subs. many prefer subs with distortion up to 30%. now thats not saying low distortion subs sound bad, they sound really good. just they dont sound like most other subs on the market.

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post #670 of 681 Old 01-11-2019, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
one thing with subs is that they all dont sound the same. if someone is used to car stereo subs or edm clubs I would not recommend rythmik subs as they are very low distortion subs. many prefer subs with distortion up to 30%. now thats not saying low distortion subs sound bad, they sound really good. just they dont sound like most other subs on the market.
Low distortion subwoofers should sound more like the bass on a very good pair of headphones, right?
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post #671 of 681 Old 01-11-2019, 11:33 PM
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yup, imo

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post #672 of 681 Old 01-12-2019, 12:04 AM
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JTR Captivator 4000ULF LF Adjust different setting comparison:

Wonder Woman - LF Adjust @ Minimum. This setting is flat at 10Hz. It is similar to what muscles first heard, the safe setting:

Wonder Woman - LF Adjust @ 1/2. This setting adds 9dB @ 10Hz:

Wonder Woman - LF Adjust @ Maximum. This setting adds 18dB @ 10Hz. This is the holy S-H-I-T setting:

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Sur: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3.
Subwoofers: JTR Captivator 4000ULF / 1400.
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FS: JTR Cap 1400, Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

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post #673 of 681 Old 01-12-2019, 08:32 AM
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Most of the people who are responding to questions like yours have upgraded subwoofers at least once.
"at least once" being the key words, and that includes yours truly...
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post #674 of 681 Old 01-12-2019, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdogger7 View Post
In that case, why not go with the best sealed sub available for precision and then use the crawson for the TR below 20hz? What would be missing? I am still learning this stuff, so bear with me if this is a stupid question.
While sealed subs do go below 20hz, they can't shake much like crowsons can 20hz and below especially when you're on concrete (non suspended) flooring. You simply don't choose one or the other, you start with subs then add crowsons for the final touch! Crowsons are not meant to replace subs, just to compliment it and give that extra fun factor.
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post #675 of 681 Old 01-16-2019, 09:55 PM
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Here is the link for the GTG

http://afterconvert.com/forum/61-ar...a-meet-12.html

I have not noticed any less. I have yet to make use of the PEQ option which would add about +3db to the midbass frequencies. This sub is deep for sure but in the FR I ran it was no less than the JTR 118 or the V1801 up top. These subs own scenes like EoT intro and pulse server room. I have not heard a sub play these scenes with this much authority. I am lucky to have a very nice room for bass as well. Todd even thought these subs played the EoT better than the Cap 2400 ULFs...
I'm still on the first page of your thread. Looking forward to read the rest. What's your room dimention? You mentioned 2100 CF. Mine is 2200 sealed with 12x8x23(WxHxL) but the bass response in my room is nothing to be bragged out .

Do you have REW FR of raw sub response?
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post #676 of 681 Old Yesterday, 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
I'm still on the first page of your thread. Looking forward to read the rest. What's your room dimention? You mentioned 2100 CF. Mine is 2200 sealed with 12x8x23(WxHxL) but the bass response in my room is nothing to be bragged out .

Do you have REW FR of raw sub response?
The FR in my 2400 cu ft family room of 22 1/4 * 14 1/4 * 7 1/2, similar in size to yours:

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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Neosis 212HT. Sur: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3.
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FS: JTR Cap 1400, Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #677 of 681 Old Yesterday, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
I'm still on the first page of your thread. Looking forward to read the rest. What's your room dimention? You mentioned 2100 CF. Mine is 2200 sealed with 12x8x23(WxHxL) but the bass response in my room is nothing to be bragged out .



Do you have REW FR of raw sub response?


Hi, I hope you find the thread useful. Are you referring to my current subs? The FV18 paper cones? Are you on concrete or a suspended floor?


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post #678 of 681 Old Yesterday, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
The FR in my 2400 cu ft family room of 22 1/4 * 14 1/4 * 7 1/2, similar in size to yours:

Nice. Going down to 10Hz. Woww. In my case, the sub is tuned to 17Hz so it falls straight down after that.

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Hi, I hope you find the thread useful. Are you referring to my current subs? The FV18 paper cones? Are you on concrete or a suspended floor?


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Yes indeed. Yes I was referring to your current FV18 paper cones subs. I'm on a suspended floor. My room is just like yours. I'm currently using 2 Mini Marty using UXL18 drivers and they sit ~60" away from MLP on Left/Right side of room hugging back wall. They provide Great tactile on my suspended floor even though FR shows that I loose gain below 23Hz.
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post #679 of 681 Old Yesterday, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post

Yes indeed. Yes I was referring to your current FV18 paper cones subs. I'm on a suspended floor. My room is just like yours. I'm currently using 2 Mini Marty using UXL18 drivers and they sit ~60" away from MLP on Left/Right side of room hugging back wall. They provide Great tactile on my suspended floor even though FR shows that I loose gain below 23Hz.
I think I do. Will check them tonight when I am back home and have access to my PC with REW.

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev 2 with Paper cone
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post #680 of 681 Old Yesterday, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
I'm still on the first page of your thread. Looking forward to read the rest. What's your room dimention? You mentioned 2100 CF. Mine is 2200 sealed with 12x8x23(WxHxL) but the bass response in my room is nothing to be bragged out .

Do you have REW FR of raw sub response?
Here you go, FR with and without Audyssey

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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev 2 with Paper cone
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/R - PSA MTM-210 Center- PSA MT 110sr Surrounds
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, WD Live TV media player, Roku Ultra & Premium, Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #681 of 681 Old Yesterday, 10:12 PM
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Here is my LFE response of 2 x sealed F12SEs + ported FV25HP with miniDSP 2x4 HD using 13 PEQs (10 input + 3 output) + Dirac Live in a 2500 cu ft open living room:

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Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Emotiva XMC-1 | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | 92" Stewart ST100 | Sony VW295ES |
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