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post #1 of 17 Old 11-25-2018, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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New disc player question

I have been looking for a new disc player, to reduce the clutter caused by my current three. I want one which will play all (or most of) the current disc audio formats. (I'm posting rather than the blu ray thread because my primary interest is in audio). My collection includes CDs, DVD-Audios, and SACDs. When Best Buy had the Sony UBP-X800 on sale yesterday for $200 (reduced from $400), I decided to bite, but what am I giving up by not getting a higher end player? One disappointment is that it doesn't have analog outputs (which my current pioneer DV-563a does), but a bargain is a bargain. I do very little movie watching and own only one BluRay disc. Also, it appears that it's good for streaming. I currently use an AppleTV, which I find very kludgey; is the Sony better?
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post #2 of 17 Old 11-25-2018, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
I have been looking for a new disc player, to reduce the clutter caused by my current three. I want one which will play all (or most of) the current disc audio formats. (I'm posting rather than the blu ray thread because my primary interest is in audio). My collection includes CDs, DVD-Audios, and SACDs. When Best Buy had the Sony UBP-X800 on sale yesterday for $200 (reduced from $400), I decided to bite, but what am I giving up by not getting a higher end player? One disappointment is that it doesn't have analog outputs (which my current pioneer DV-563a does), but a bargain is a bargain. I do very little movie watching and own only one BluRay disc. Also, it appears that it's good for streaming. I currently use an AppleTV, which I find very kludgey; is the Sony better?
It would be helpful if you posted what your budget would be for a universal player with analog outputs. When you mention analog outputs would that be just stereo or a 5/7.1 analog output as well? I would suggest looking for a used Oppo 105 or 95 which have an excellent analog output stage (stereo and 5/7.1) The 105 can be found used for around $750 with the 95 around $550. You could also consider the 103 which can be found used for around $400. I've owned or own all three Oppo players mentioned and not only is the sound quality and feature sets excellent the reliability is also first rate as well.

Below are links to the Oppo site with information on all three players so you can compare the feature set of each player.

105 - http://www.oppodigital.com/support/...5-Support.aspx
95 - http://www.oppodigital.com/support/...5-Support.aspx
103 - http://www.oppodigital.com/support/...5-Support.aspx

My SACD collection and HRAudio.net Library, getting larger as my wallet gets smaller ;-).

Emotiva XMC-1, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE (preamp), SX-500s, ST-500, ST-250, Oppo UDP-205 x 2, UDP-203, BDP-103, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk HT2-TLs, Salk 1801b center, Salk 1801TL (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #3 of 17 Old 11-25-2018, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post
It would be helpful if you posted what your budget would be for a universal player with analog outputs. When you mention analog outputs would that be just stereo or a 5/7.1 analog output as well? I would suggest looking for a used Oppo 105 or 95 which have an excellent analog output stage (stereo and 5/7.1) The 105 can be found used for around $750 with the 95 around $550. You could also consider the 103 which can be found used for around $400. I've owned or own all three Oppo players mentioned and not only is the sound quality and feature sets excellent the reliability is also first rate as well.

Below are links to the Oppo site with information on all three players so you can compare the feature set of each player.

105 - http://www.oppodigital.com/support/...5-Support.aspx
95 - http://www.oppodigital.com/support/...5-Support.aspx
103 - http://www.oppodigital.com/support/...5-Support.aspx
My current Pioneer has 6 analog outputs. I wish I had gotten one of the Oppos, but I missed the boat. If I could find one of the three you mention, what are the primary differences. On other threads, I see that the Oppo 10x series has some features missing on the 20x. I read the comparison between the 105 and the 103 in the urls you listed and I don't really understand them, or know if I can detect the difference. Why is the 95 more expensive than the 103? Anyway, all are in my price range if I could find one and could be convinced that the difference from the Sony would be detectable.
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post #4 of 17 Old 11-25-2018, 09:32 AM
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Oppo answers the 105 vs. 103 question...

http://www.oppodigital.com/Knowledg...&ProdID=BDP-93


It all depends on what analog connections make sense in your system.
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post #5 of 17 Old 11-25-2018, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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From Oppo's 2013 knowledge base:

Understanding the Differences Between the BDP-103 and BDP-105

The OPPO BDP-103 and BDP-105 share the same primary components (including the mainboard, laser, and loader) for superb audio and video playback, and while the BDP-103 and BDP-105 are identical in performance when it comes to audio and video over HDMI, the BDP-105 offers a number of enhancements:

1. The BDP-105 features improved sound quality from its analog audio outputs with its implementation of dual 32-bit ESS Technology digital-to-analog converters, a toroidal power supply, and two sets of dedicated stereo analog outputs (balanced XLR and unbalanced RCA) for 2-channel enthusiasts. Customers who do a great deal of critical music listening using a very high end, analog connected system will benefit most from these additions.

2. The BDP-105 features a headphone amplifier for use with high-quality headphones.

3. The BDP-105 features three additional digital audio inputs: optical, coaxial, and a 2-channel asynchronous USB DAC input.

Furthermore, the BDP-105 is graced with additional aesthetic and ergonomic enhancements that include a larger 4.8 inch tall chassis, sculpted aluminum front panel, touch sensitive front-panel playback controls, availability of an optional rack mount kit, and availability in Black or Silver.


I'm not sure if any of these things will benefit me; I don't know the effect of the dual 32-bit DACs, I don't care about the XLR outputs, I don't use headphones, and I'm not sure how the digital autio inputs will be useful. Looking at the 103 specs, it appears that it does have USB inputs. But, since neither of these are available except on the used market, maybe I should just see what I can find at a reasonable (?) price!
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post #6 of 17 Old 11-25-2018, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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But I still didn't get an answer to my poorly worded primary question - should I definitely keep the Sony UBP-X800 or return it unopened.
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post #7 of 17 Old 11-25-2018, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
But I still didn't get an answer to my poorly worded primary question - should I definitely keep the Sony UBP-X800 or return it unopened.
If you need analog outputs then it's not worth keeping the X800. You could open the box and try the X800 in your system. If it doesn't work or sound to your liking return it to Best Buy within the return window. What AVR/processor do you have? As far as whether you'll hear differences between the 103 and the 105 it's system dependent IMO. In other words do you have a system that will take advantage of the upgraded analog stages of the 95 and 105.

Bill

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Last edited by Bill Mac; 11-25-2018 at 02:32 PM.
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post #8 of 17 Old 11-27-2018, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
But I still didn't get an answer to my poorly worded primary question - should I definitely keep the Sony UBP-X800 or return it unopened.
If it has the features you want, keep it. The difference between players is more a matter of features than sound quality. If your amp has HDMI inputs use that instead of analog. It's much convenient and you'll never hear any difference.
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post #9 of 17 Old 11-27-2018, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sworth View Post
If it has the features you want, keep it. The difference between players is more a matter of features than sound quality. If your amp has HDMI inputs use that instead of analog. It's much convenient and you'll never hear any difference.
I have kept the 800 and it works fine for all the types of discs I am interested in. My amp does have HDMI inputs, the 800 has only digital outs. In fact, it has two HDMI outs, one for audio only. I plugged the video one into my amp and was wondering when would one use the audio ones. Maybe plug the video out into the TV and the audio one into the AVR? What would be the benefit of that?
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post #10 of 17 Old 11-27-2018, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike
... My amp does have HDMI inputs, the 800 has only digital outs. In fact, it has two HDMI outs, one for audio only. I plugged the video one into my amp and was wondering when would one use the audio ones. Maybe plug the video out into the TV and the audio one into the AVR? ...
According to the owner's manual, pg. 25:
Quote:
[HDMI Audio Output]
[Auto]: Outputs audio signal via HDMI OUT 2 jack if it is connected
to a device and the device is turned on. Otherwise, outputs audio signal
via HDMI OUT 1 jack.
[HDMI1]: Outputs audio signal via HDMI OUT 1 jack.
[HDMI2]: Outputs audio signal via HDMI OUT 2 jack.
And on pg. 12:
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post #11 of 17 Old 11-27-2018, 06:13 AM
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Side note: It's strange and disappointing that (according to the owner's manual) a "universal" player like the UBP-X800 doesn't handle PAL format. I expect that in my $80 Sony BD player, but not in a higher-end model with an MSRP of ~$400 (currently selling for ~$300).

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post #12 of 17 Old 11-27-2018, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=eljaycanuck;57171558]According to the owner's manual, pg. 25:

[HDMI Audio Output]
[Auto]: Outputs audio signal via HDMI OUT 2 jack if it is connected
to a device and the device is turned on. Otherwise, outputs audio signal
via HDMI OUT 1 jack.
[HDMI1]: Outputs audio signal via HDMI OUT 1 jack.
[HDMI2]: Outputs audio signal via HDMI OUT 2 jack.

So this means that if HDMI OUT 2 is connected to a device, the audio signal doesn't come out the HDMI OUT 1 jack? So you can't use both HDMI OUTs for audio simultaneously?
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post #13 of 17 Old 11-27-2018, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sworth View Post
If it has the features you want, keep it. The difference between players is more a matter of features than sound quality. If your amp has HDMI inputs use that instead of analog. It's much convenient and you'll never hear any difference.
I totally disagree that one will not hear any differences between analog and HDMI. It depends on the quality of the DACs and analog stages in the player and the processor it's connected to. If the DACs and analog stage in ones player is superior to that in the AVR/prepro it's connected to one will hear differences. The differences most likely will be subtle but to say "you'll never hear any difference" is totally false. I've owned a number of universal players from Oppo (83SE, 95, 105D and 205). With that I was able to discern SQ differences between analog and HDMI with many A-B comparisons done over the years. A number of these comparisons were done with volume levels matched (using an SPL meter), identical players and music.

So please don't post that I'm "dogging" you as you are posting incorrect information. Which should be pointed out so the OP has the correct information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
I have kept the 800 and it works fine for all the types of discs I am interested in. My amp does have HDMI inputs, the 800 has only digital outs. In fact, it has two HDMI outs, one for audio only. I plugged the video one into my amp and was wondering when would one use the audio ones. Maybe plug the video out into the TV and the audio one into the AVR? What would be the benefit of that?
If you have a 4k display but your processor will not pass the 4k signal is when you would use both HDMI outputs.

Bill
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post #14 of 17 Old 11-27-2018, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post
If you have a 4k display but your processor will not pass the 4k signal is when you would use both HDMI outputs.

Bill
Thanks, that makes sense.
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post #15 of 17 Old 11-27-2018, 09:11 AM
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the differences are not always subtle...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post
I totally disagree that one will not hear any differences between analog and HDMI. It depends on the quality of the DACs and analog stages in the player and the processor it's connected to. If the DACs and analog stage in ones player is superior to that in the AVR/prepro it's connected to one will hear differences. The differences most likely will be subtle but to say "you'll never hear any difference" is totally false. I've owned a number of universal players from Oppo (83SE, 95, 105D and 205). With that I was able to discern SQ differences between analog and HDMI with many A-B comparisons done over the years. A number of these comparisons were done with volume levels matched (using an SPL meter), identical players and music.

So please don't post that I'm "dogging" you as you are posting incorrect information. Which should be pointed out so the OP has the correct information.
Bill

The most obvious example of an unsubtle difference is that Oppo's analog outputs can be overwhelmed by certain movie soundtracks with aggressive LFE effects. In theory the potential for bass distortion could be an issue for music reproduction as well, but in my experience that is not the case.

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post #16 of 17 Old 11-27-2018, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
Side note: It's strange and disappointing that (according to the owner's manual) a "universal" player like the UBP-X800 doesn't handle PAL format. I expect that in my $80 Sony BD player, but not in a higher-end model with an MSRP of ~$400 (currently selling for ~$300).
You might be able to get a region free mod for it.
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post #17 of 17 Old 12-17-2018, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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So now, three weeks later, I've lived with my Sony UBP-X800 and am pretty satisfied with it. It doesn't have analog outs, but the sound quality over the HDMI connections seems fine, for now. My only complaint is the rather kludgey interface for flash drives in the USB input. I've been able to play all types of discs I currently own.
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