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post #31 of 48 Old 11-12-2018, 11:32 AM
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You are boosting the rears +6dB when you play Sgt Pepper, right? Without that it is all up front and quite dry sounding.

I do boost the surrounds and that is a more pleasing experience but the harsh edges on the vocals and guitar are still present. The same tracks on Anthology and Yellow Submarine BD are much better. I am beginning to think that the Mastering could have been better.
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post #32 of 48 Old 11-12-2018, 01:57 PM
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Is there any song in particular where it's more of a problem? I'd like to check and see what you're hearing.
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post #33 of 48 Old 11-12-2018, 04:11 PM
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Is there any song in particular where it's more of a problem? I'd like to check and see what you're hearing.

The Title Track, and LSD are the 2 that I can compare elsewhere.



Been listening to The White Album all day. I find the Mix and SQ to be better than Pepper. Still feel that the SQ could be better. A little too sterile. The mix definitely uses the surrounds more than the Pepper Mix. Vocals still a bit on the sharp side for my tastes. I guess my room and center speaker are to blame but I rarely notice it on other material. The 5.1 mix on the 2nd BD of Imagine has SQ that is much better than this or Pepper. The vocals on that mix are awesome. I hope when they do Abbey Road the SQ has a bit more warmth to it.
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post #34 of 48 Old 11-13-2018, 01:29 PM
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I'll pull that and listen to it. I listened to the White Album all the way through last night. It takes a much more conservative approach to surround than Sgt Pepper did. It tends to isolate sound sources in individual channels. There are a few instances where they push out into the room, but they're fewer and further between. It doesn't fill the room the way much of Pepper did. The sound is very clear and clean, but a bit thin, and some songs suffer for that, in particular Helter Skelter, which loses a lot of its punch when the overdriven distortion is taken off the vocals. This album is a patchwork quilt and the mix is too. Oddly enough, the songs I like the least are the ones that have the best mixes. Do It In The Road has a big bluesy sound that fills the room to overflowing, and Me And My Monkey hits a peak at the end that I wish went on a little longer before the fade out. Honey Pie has a great big sound too. Ringo's drums sound pretty good on some songs and splatty on others. That's probably just how it was recorded. The bass is a bit shy overall both on the kick drum and Paul's bass.

It's a good mix, but I would have liked a little more fullness in the sound, particularly with phase differences across channels to make it sound thicker and bigger. Pepper had more of that, but I think they found that it didn't play properly on a lot of people's systems, so they took a safer route and kept the channel meshing to just the front. There were lots of neat rear channel effects and little fills that popped up all around the walls. That makes it fun to listen to.
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post #35 of 48 Old 11-13-2018, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by GZAP1 View Post
The Title Track, and LSD are the 2 that I can compare elsewhere.



Been listening to The White Album all day. I find the Mix and SQ to be better than Pepper. Still feel that the SQ could be better. A little too sterile. The mix definitely uses the surrounds more than the Pepper Mix. Vocals still a bit on the sharp side for my tastes. I guess my room and center speaker are to blame but I rarely notice it on other material. The 5.1 mix on the 2nd BD of Imagine has SQ that is much better than this or Pepper. The vocals on that mix are awesome. I hope when they do Abbey Road the SQ has a bit more warmth to it.
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I'll pull that and listen to it. I listened to the White Album all the way through last night. It takes a much more conservative approach to surround than Sgt Pepper did. It tends to isolate sound sources in individual channels. There are a few instances where they push out into the room, but they're fewer and further between. It doesn't fill the room the way much of Pepper did. The sound is very clear and clean, but a bit thin, and some songs suffer for that, in particular Helter Skelter, which loses a lot of its punch when the overdriven distortion is taken off the vocals. This album is a patchwork quilt and the mix is too. Oddly enough, the songs I like the least are the ones that have the best mixes. Do It In The Road has a big bluesy sound that fills the room to overflowing, and Me And My Monkey hits a peak at the end that I wish went on a little longer before the fade out. Honey Pie has a great big sound too. Ringo's drums sound pretty good on some songs and splatty on others. That's probably just how it was recorded. The bass is a bit shy overall both on the kick drum and Paul's bass.

It's a good mix, but I would have liked a little more fullness in the sound, particularly with phase differences across channels to make it sound thicker and bigger. Pepper had more of that, but I think they found that it didn't play properly on a lot of people's systems, so they took a safer route and kept the channel meshing to just the front. There were lots of neat rear channel effects and little fills that popped up all around the walls. That makes it fun to listen to.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but you guys must be listening to a different White Album than I am. I've found this to be a much better surround mix than the other Beatles Blu-Rays, and don't hear the SQ issues you guy's are. (A little to sterile, vocals on the sharp side, a bit thin, conservative, bass is a bit shy, would have liked a little more fullness, the SQ could have been better) ?????

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post #36 of 48 Old 11-13-2018, 04:54 PM
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This isn't a bad multichannel mix at all. It's quite good. But personally, I'm more interested in immersive effects filling the center of the room than I am sound coming from different directions around the corners, so I prefer the Sgt Pepper mix. There were some songs that had a nice immersive feel, but not as many as on Pepper. If you prefer a lot of directionality, this one would be better to you. The judgement is based on the criteria you pick. If you pick different criteria than I do, you'll come up with a different judgement. Nothing wrong with that. If you listen to different opinions and figure out what they're judging by, you understand better what makes this mix tick. That is a good thing. I'm happy to explain what I'm listening for if you're interested.

Here is an example...

Do you have the old CD of the White Album? Compare the CD version of Helter Skelter to the new mix. It's quite different. The older version was a huge dynamic contrast with the songs around it. It had loud in your face compression and it had overdriven vocals that crossed the line into distortion, especially on the line "Till I get to the bottom and I see you again". Like the Rolling Stones "Street Fighting Man" this song sounded loud even at lower volumes. The dense loudness and distortion was a big part of what created the aggressive tone of the song. In the remix, the balances are thinned out and the vocals are clean. It makes the song sound far less aggressive. If you prefer it sounding cleaner and clearer, you might like the remix better. But for this song, I prefer it to be loud and aggressive sounding like it's right over the line into distorting a little.

Does that make sense?

One thing I forgot to mention earlier is that the level balances of the songs seem a little off. Back in the USSR is very loud, and setting the volume level to a comfortable listening level for that song means that the songs that follow are a little too quiet. There are a few other points like that as well. I found myself adjusting the volume a few times as I played this album.
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post #37 of 48 Old 11-13-2018, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sworth View Post

Here is an example...

Do you have the old CD of the White Album? Compare the CD version of Helter Skelter to the new mix. It's quite different. The older version was a huge dynamic contrast with the songs around it. It had loud in your face compression and it had overdriven vocals that crossed the line into distortion, especially on the line "Till I get to the bottom and I see you again". Like the Rolling Stones "Street Fighting Man" this song sounded loud even at lower volumes. The dense loudness and distortion was a big part of what created the aggressive tone of the song. In the remix, the balances are thinned out and the vocals are clean. It makes the song sound far less aggressive. If you prefer it sounding cleaner and clearer, you might like the remix better. But for this song, I prefer it to be loud and aggressive sounding like it's right over the line into distorting a little.

Does that make sense?

One thing I forgot to mention earlier is that the level balances of the songs seem a little off. Back in the USSR is very loud, and setting the volume level to a comfortable listening level for that song means that the songs that follow are a little too quiet. There are a few other points like that as well. I found myself adjusting the volume a few times as I played this album.
First off I don't know how you can even compare the CD (stereo) if your talking about the surround mix, which is what this section is for? If your talking about the stereo mix then it should be discussed in another section. Does that make sense?
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post #38 of 48 Old 11-14-2018, 10:07 AM
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I'm pointing out what is missing in the surround mix. You said you didn't understand what I was saying, and I tried to clarify and explain with a clearer example. If you want to be argumentative, there's no point in you even responding. You can feel free to ignore my posts. I'm interested in having a discussion about multichannel music with people.

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post #39 of 48 Old 11-14-2018, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sworth View Post
This isn't a bad multichannel mix at all. It's quite good. But personally, I'm more interested in immersive effects filling the center of the room than I am sound coming from different directions around the corners, so I prefer the Sgt Pepper mix. There were some songs that had a nice immersive feel, but not as many as on Pepper. If you prefer a lot of directionality, this one would be better to you. The judgement is based on the criteria you pick. If you pick different criteria than I do, you'll come up with a different judgement. Nothing wrong with that. If you listen to different opinions and figure out what they're judging by, you understand better what makes this mix tick. That is a good thing. I'm happy to explain what I'm listening for if you're interested.

Here is an example...

Do you have the old CD of the White Album? Compare the CD version of Helter Skelter to the new mix. It's quite different. The older version was a huge dynamic contrast with the songs around it. It had loud in your face compression and it had overdriven vocals that crossed the line into distortion, especially on the line "Till I get to the bottom and I see you again". Like the Rolling Stones "Street Fighting Man" this song sounded loud even at lower volumes. The dense loudness and distortion was a big part of what created the aggressive tone of the song. In the remix, the balances are thinned out and the vocals are clean. It makes the song sound far less aggressive. If you prefer it sounding cleaner and clearer, you might like the remix better. But for this song, I prefer it to be loud and aggressive sounding like it's right over the line into distorting a little.

Does that make sense?

One thing I forgot to mention earlier is that the level balances of the songs seem a little off. Back in the USSR is very loud, and setting the volume level to a comfortable listening level for that song means that the songs that follow are a little too quiet. There are a few other points like that as well. I found myself adjusting the volume a few times as I played this album.

Pepper is definitely more immersive. I actually prefer the more discrete mix of the White Album 5.1. It's 50/50 for us! I like the space in the White Album mix better than the congested feel of the Pepper mix. I just feel the SQ could have been better on both. I find I like the PCM Stereo mix of Pepper with DPLIIx&Aud added. I find it clearer with better placement than the actual 5.1. Just listened to Hendrix Electric Ladyland and think Eddie Kramer could show Giles how it should be done. SQ and Mix are awesome.
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post #40 of 48 Old 11-14-2018, 03:56 PM
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I'm pointing out what is missing in the surround mix. You said you didn't understand what I was saying, and I tried to clarify and explain with a clearer example. If you want to be argumentative, there's no point in you even responding. You can feel free to ignore my posts. I'm interested in having a discussion about multichannel music with people.
I don't get where I said anything about not understanding what you were talking about?
You say your interested in having a discussion about multichannel music with people, well last time I checked i'm a person/people.
If you don't like the reply then I'm argumentive?
How about there's no point in you responding.
Seems to me you can dish it out but you can't take it.
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post #41 of 48 Old 11-14-2018, 04:22 PM
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You said that you thought you were listening to a different album. I pointed out specifically what I was talking about. You can feel free to move on now. I am.

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Pepper is definitely more immersive.
The problem with immersive mixes is that they don't always sound good on everyone's systems. The front and back channels need to create a phantom center in the middle of the room in order for immersive stuff to work properly. Not everyone has big speakers in the rear. The level imbalance mistake didn't help any either. I've beefed up my rear channel and I am always on the lookout for immersive mixes to check it out. I think the inconsistency with playback on Sgt Pepper was why they abandoned Atmos for the White Album.

Sgt Pepper seems to sound clearer in the surround mix than the old CDs, especially on the tracks with lots of layers. It's odd, but the White Album does seem to be inconsistent. The bass isn't anywhere near my white vinyl LP pressing, and the drums seem to sound splattery on some tracks. Other tracks have good sounding drums. I wonder if there were problems with the condition of the masters?

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post #42 of 48 Old 11-14-2018, 05:22 PM
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Sgt Pepper seems to sound clearer in the surround mix than the old CDs, especially on the tracks with lots of layers.
Huh? Of course the Sgt. Pepper 5.1 mix is going to sound "clearer" than the old CDs. Were those old CDs mono ? Just the simple fact that a 5.1 mix will disperse the music between five speakers opposed to two speakers is an obvious fact. Not sure why you continue to draw comparisons between surround titles and CDs. Apples and oranges IMO.

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post #43 of 48 Old 11-16-2018, 10:06 AM
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There is absolutely no reason for you to reply to my posts. Thanks!
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post #44 of 48 Old 11-16-2018, 10:21 AM
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I heard this on Spotify, but they only have a few songs.
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post #45 of 48 Old 11-17-2018, 12:00 PM
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Huh? Of course the Sgt. Pepper 5.1 mix is going to sound "clearer" than the old CDs. Were those old CDs mono ? Just the simple fact that a 5.1 mix will disperse the music between five speakers opposed to two speakers is an obvious fact. Not sure why you continue to draw comparisons between surround titles and CDs. Apples and oranges IMO.

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The Beatles covered it (in multichannel too):

Day after day, alone on a hill
The man with the foolish grin is sitting perfectly still
Nobody wants to know him
They can see that he's just a fool
But he never gives an answer

But the fool on the hill
Sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head
See the world spinning round

His head in a cloud
The man with a foolish grin is talking perfectly loud
But nobody wants to hear him
They can see that he's just a fool
But he never gives an answer

But the fool on the hill
Sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head
See the world spinning round
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post #46 of 48 Old 11-17-2018, 04:02 PM
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Personally, I don't see any issue with posting about all of the components in a boxset, Atmos, 5.1, 4.0, 2.0, mono or whatever.
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post #47 of 48 Old 11-17-2018, 06:19 PM
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Nor do I. I don't agree with every opinion expressed here but I see no need to attack or demean someone for expressing them.
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post #48 of 48 Old 11-18-2018, 11:45 AM
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I just skip on past and ignore that stuff. He can think he's Ahab and I'm Moby Dick. I don't care.

I'm looking forward to coming back to the White Album and listening to the demos. I hear there's a lot of amazing stuff in there. But I keep playing the Hendrix over and over and I just got two new multichannel albums that were recommended here that I haven't listened to. I'll get back to it eventually.
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