Forum Jump: 
 39Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 65 Old 11-24-2017, 01:35 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,491
Mentioned: 174 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3538 Post(s)
Liked: 3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Actually no. My speakers were all calibrated to play at the same db level (85 db) after calibration, using external pink noise from REW and taking bass management into account. Further, I ran solo channel feeds because I wondered the same thing you did, and there's apparently more vocals at times coming from my top front than the main. I'll also run a screenshot of the inputs to track max db per channel, but anecdotally I saw the same thing there.

OTOH you could be right...they may have assumed that listeners may have the heights generally calibrated lower than mains, so dialing down the top fronts may help in this case. Regardless I haven't noticed this on other content, either from listening or watching the Altitude input meters. Go figure...
My system is an ARC calibration and I never touched the levels. I haven't noticed them to be low, but how is one to know how much the effects in the heights are supposed to be heard? I haven't bothered to measure either, since I don't know exactly the methodology used by ARC to set channel levels, and everything I listen to sounds correct.

Unfortunately, we're not hearing the same things in our systems, and maybe it's due to different methodologies to set speaker levels.

At this point I'm just going to wait until something doesn't sound right before I go into trouble shooting mode. Because what I'm hearing is a very artfully mixed Atmos track that has a massive front soundstage. I generally like the decisions made by the mixers in object placement, although I can see your point on a couple of choices. It seems though that the prominent ceiling presentation heavily effected your impressions, and I would not like that either.

But this does not bode well for Atmos music discs since different ceiling levels really doesn't impact movie soundtracks so much, but can tremendously impact music mixes.
Gooddoc is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 65 Old 11-24-2017, 02:32 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
sdrucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,005
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1445 Post(s)
Liked: 1080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
My system is an ARC calibration and I never touched the levels. I haven't noticed them to be low, but how is one to know how much the effects in the heights are supposed to be heard? I haven't bothered to measure either, since I don't know exactly the methodology used by ARC to set channel levels, and everything I listen to sounds correct.

Unfortunately, we're not hearing the same things in our systems, and maybe it's due to different methodologies to set speaker levels.

At this point I'm just going to wait until something doesn't sound right before I go into trouble shooting mode. Because what I'm hearing is a very artfully mixed Atmos track that has a massive front soundstage. I generally like the decisions made by the mixers in object placement, although I can see your point on a couple of choices. It seems though that the prominent ceiling presentation heavily effected your impressions, and I would not like that either.

But this does not bode well for Atmos music discs since different ceiling levels really doesn't impact movie soundtracks so much, but can tremendously impact music mixes.
One critical point: movies have standards for mixing levels WRT Dolby and DTS. Music doesn’t...so playing db levels to taste may be a good thing as there’s no true reference. Off to shop, so I may play with this later and do that input meter capture.

I still think the mix choices for Atmos rendering on the disc can be a little weird, like the beginning of “Drive” being somewhat left-sided until more instruments kick in, and the guitar “diagonal”, but some of that may be intentional by the producer and date back to the decisions made from the DVD-Audio mixing. I still prefer the instrument clarity regardless, so I’d still consider it a worthy purchase in context. Of course, it’s not like a high channel count enthusiast is a target audience here.

FWIW I have the Kraftwerk disc. Haven’t listened to it yet but I should do so this weekend, as a comparison aside from the obvious genre difference...

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides/Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, Image B6 screens, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 13.4.6
HAA HT1 and HT2 Certification
sdrucker is online now  
post #33 of 65 Old 11-24-2017, 05:59 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,491
Mentioned: 174 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3538 Post(s)
Liked: 3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Further, I ran solo channel feeds because I wondered the same thing you did, and there's apparently more vocals at times coming from my top front than the main. I'll also run a screenshot of the inputs to track max db per channel, but anecdotally I saw the same thing there.
Dude, I fell terrible you're hearing this mix that way. Really. If I didn't know better I would say we're each listening to a different mix, lol. Granted, there's only a couple reviews of the Atmos track, but I wonder why none of the reviewers picked up on this. Or the band. I can't imagine anyone wanting vocals coming from the ceiling.

If my ceilings are too low, I'm happy for it .

I'm looking at the INXS disc as I'm writing this. I'll report my impressions in that thread.
Gooddoc is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 65 Old 11-24-2017, 07:24 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
sdrucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,005
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1445 Post(s)
Liked: 1080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Dude, I fell terrible you're hearing this mix that way. Really. If I didn't know better I would say we're each listening to a different mix, lol. Granted, there's only a couple reviews of the Atmos track, but I wonder why none of the reviewers picked up on this. Or the band. I can't imagine anyone wanting vocals coming from the ceiling.

If my ceilings are too low, I'm happy for it .

I'm looking at the INXS disc as I'm writing this. I'll report my impressions in that thread.
Note: this was with no 3D Remapping, so nothing from the mains got mixed into the top front (which are PSB CS1000 mounted on an adjustible bar attached to the 9’ flat ceiling and aimed on-axis to MLP, BTW). It was song dependent, not the whole album. More later when I’m home and can play the disc again. And it’s definitely Dolby Atmos as per my inputs.

Maybe it’s a matter of degree we’re talking about, but you had said the ceilings were quite active and you could hear instruments and vocals from just the ceiling, as well as objects up there:
http://afterconvert.com/forum/112-su...l#post55157046

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides/Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, Image B6 screens, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 13.4.6
HAA HT1 and HT2 Certification

Last edited by sdrucker; 11-24-2017 at 07:43 PM.
sdrucker is online now  
post #35 of 65 Old 11-24-2017, 09:04 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
sdrucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,005
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1445 Post(s)
Liked: 1080
OK, I’m home and just played the first few minutes of “Drive” and “Ignoreland” few times. Here’s my Altitude’s input db levels in decoded and rendered Atmos of my 7 bed channels, wides, and top front and rears, to illustrate my point. These are relative db levels vs. full scale SPL raw inputs. The line at the top of each bar in green is a peak, and the bars are active content at about 2:00 on each clip.

Not only is my left top front raw input almost as loud as my left main in my screenshots, but you’ll see just how active my speakers are consistently in the wides and heights here.

Here’s what I notice audibly:
On “Drive”, the left top front has the acoustic and electric guitar (as do wides at a lower level), with the accordion in the top right front. Vocals are mostly in the center, with some acoustic bass. Left and right mains are some lower leveled vocals and some bass, and strings. Other surrounds are mostly ambience.

On “Ignoreland”, the lead and harmony vocals and some electic guitar are in the left top front, with guitar, bass and drums in the L/R mains and vocals in the center about as loud as the top left front (but prominent bass). There’s pretty cool twin guitars in the wides and front side surround pair, and more percussion/ambience for my bed side surrounds and rears.

I may have been wrong about vocals from the top front on “Drive”, however. But on “Nightswimming”, it’s sure noticeable to hear the vocals in the center in near isolation, but hear vocals from the left main and top front, which gives some elevaton to the sound pulling the overall effect that way! Then again, with the piano there in the top, they may have leveled for that effect.

BTW for perspective, I just put on the Hans Zimmer BD in Atmos, and playing “Crimson Tide” and “160 BPM”, which is as intense as you’d expect with that name , you mostly just have 7.x.4 playback on the input meters, and the tops are all a good -25db on both inputs and actual output levels vs. the mains. So it’s not my top levels LOL.

So, aside for too much science, I think these are really mix choices, including what I hear on the top front at times. And being raw input levels I’m measuring, the calibration loudness isn’t an issue. The conclusion: enjoy the mix and season level to taste. If you’re happy with your Anthem cal levels, by all means stick with it and enjoy.

I’ll drop this now, but thought you’d find my input meter shots of interest.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	58D832C0-9B5C-4A8F-B56C-19FB27F94217.png
Views:	42
Size:	135.5 KB
ID:	2320778   Click image for larger version

Name:	20ABA78B-1983-479C-AC1C-72FF82149F3A.png
Views:	34
Size:	135.4 KB
ID:	2320780  

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides/Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, Image B6 screens, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 13.4.6
HAA HT1 and HT2 Certification

Last edited by sdrucker; 11-25-2017 at 07:07 AM.
sdrucker is online now  
post #36 of 65 Old 11-25-2017, 07:00 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,491
Mentioned: 174 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3538 Post(s)
Liked: 3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
OK, I’m home and just played the first few minutes of “Drive” and “Ignoreland” few times. Here’s my Altitude’s input db levels in decoded and rendered Atmos of my 7 bed channels, wides, and top front and rears, to illustrate my point. These are relative db levels vs. full scale SPL raw inputs. The line at the top of each bar in green is a peak, and the bars are active content at about 2:00 on each clip.

Not only is my left top front raw input almost as loud as my left main in my screenshots, but you’ll see just how active my speakers are consistently in the wides and heights here.

Here’s what I notice audibly:
On “Drive”, the left top front has the acoustic and electric guitar (as do wides at a lower level), with the accordion in the top right front. Vocals are mostly in the center, with some acoustic bass. Left and right mains are some lower leveled vocals and some bass, and strings. Other surrounds are mostly ambience.

On “Ignoreland”, the lead and harmony vocals and some electic guitar are in the left top front, with guitar, bass and drums in the L/R mains and vocals in the center about as loud as the top left front (but prominent bass). There’s pretty cool twin guitars in the wides and front side surround pair, and more percussion/ambience for my bed side surrounds and rears.

I may have been wrong about vocals from the top front on “Drive”, however. But on “Nightswimming”, it’s sure noticeable to hear the vocals in the center in near isolation, but hear vocals from the left main and top front, which gives some elevaton to the sound pulling the overall effect that way! Then again, with the piano there in the top, they may have leveled for that effect.

BTW for perspective, I just put on the Hans Zimmer BD in Atmos, and playing “Crimson Tide” and “160 BPM”, which is as intense as you’d expect with that name , you mostly just have 7.x.4 playback on the input meters, and the tops are all a good -25db on both inputs and actual output levels vs. the mains. So it’s not my top levels LOL.

So, aside for too much science, I think this are really mix choices, including what I hear on the top front at times. And being raw input levels I’m measuring, the calibration loudness isn’t an issue. The conclusion: enjoy the mix and season level to taste. If you’re happy with your Anthem cal levels, by all means stick with it and enjoy.

I’ll drop this now, but thought you’d find my input meter shots of interest.
Thanks for the meter shots, very cool!

That text description makes sense with what I'm hearing as well. I think this was more a difference between how we both perceived what we were hearing than an actual difference in the reproduction. There is a lot of "stuff" everywhere on this mix for sure, and the meters show that. There is no doubt the mixers favored the left side of the soundfield throughout the album. But I appreciate the consistency as I think it makes a very active mix like this less "gimmicky". And for sure, there is simply no accounting for preference.
Gooddoc is offline  
post #37 of 65 Old 11-25-2017, 11:04 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
sdrucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,005
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1445 Post(s)
Liked: 1080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Thanks for the meter shots, very cool!
That’s a nice feature in the Trinnov gear, including its JBL cousin SDP-75. With your M2s, I’d envy the opportunity not only to minimize the classic Circle of Confusion as a result of design principles, but to eventually import speaker-specific anechoic chamber-based target curves as part of the Room EQ. Even if you turn them to firewood and replace them with Salons after the summer speaker shootout, you can truly become one with the brand in your personalized mixing room playback.

Back to R.E.M.:
I’ve been thinking about that comment about soundfield consistency. If you think about the goal as less playing to a single row of seats as a small multi-row theater feel witnessing studio playback, maybe the “elevation” on the songs I mentioned makes some sense, because the string and keyboard instruments largely occupy similar spatial positions song to song, and the midrange/higher frequency stuff would benefit from that higher up feel (YMMV). Either way, being able to isolate the strings on “Drive”, or that electric/acoustic guitar pairing from the sides on “Imagineland”, is a revelation. There’s a few songs where Stipe’s vocals in the center are so clean that it’s literally the separate voice track alone, and you can imagine him singing in a studio booth. You can’t beat that, even if an occasional 9 ft. soundstage is a little off-putting in a few cases.

As to the leftward tilt, I’m guessing that goes back to the original track mix toward a two-channel result. Maybe they were deliberately aiming for a Beatles/60’s feel. And definitely not as weird as some songs from the Summer of Love with three part harmonies in one channel and bass in the other...

Now I just need “Diesel and Dust” from Midnight Oil, or Springsteen’s “The River” in Atmos, and life will be good...
avkv likes this.

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides/Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, Image B6 screens, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 13.4.6
HAA HT1 and HT2 Certification

Last edited by sdrucker; 11-25-2017 at 11:10 AM.
sdrucker is online now  
post #38 of 65 Old 11-25-2017, 03:35 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,491
Mentioned: 174 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3538 Post(s)
Liked: 3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
With your M2s, I’d envy the opportunity not only to minimize the classic Circle of Confusion as a result of design principles, but to eventually import speaker-specific anechoic chamber-based target curves as part of the Room EQ. Even if you turn them to firewood and replace them with Salons after the summer speaker shootout, you can truly become one with the brand in your personalized mixing room playback.
Yeah, I'm surrounded by JBL LSR 708i's and 705i's as well. I should just start mixing tracks .
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Back to R.E.M.:
I’ve been thinking about that comment about soundfield consistency. If you think about the goal as less playing to a single row of seats as a small multi-row theater feel witnessing studio playback, maybe the “elevation” on the songs I mentioned makes some sense, because the string and keyboard instruments largely occupy similar spatial positions song to song, and the midrange/higher frequency stuff would benefit from that higher up feel (YMMV). Either way, being able to isolate the strings on “Drive”, or that electric/acoustic guitar pairing from the sides on “Imagineland”, is a revelation. There’s a few songs where Stipe’s vocals in the center are so clean that it’s literally the separate voice track alone, and you can imagine him singing in a studio booth. You can’t beat that, even if an occasional 9 ft. soundstage is a little off-putting in a few cases.

As to the leftward tilt, I’m guessing that goes back to the original track mix toward a two-channel result. Maybe they were deliberately aiming for a Beatles/60’s feel. And definitely not as weird as some songs from the Summer of Love with three part harmonies in one channel and bass in the other...

Now I just need “Diesel and Dust” from Midnight Oil, or Springsteen’s “The River” in Atmos, and life will be good...
Haha, yeah, I have a whole list of albums that could be simply amazing in Atmos.
Gooddoc is offline  
post #39 of 65 Old 12-02-2017, 04:15 PM
Advanced Member
 
elee532's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Liked: 19
I thought I would be content forever with a 5.2 setup until I started reading about this REM Atmos disc. Ugh!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
elee532 is offline  
post #40 of 65 Old 12-02-2017, 05:25 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hollywood, U.S.A.
Posts: 1,121
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 544 Post(s)
Liked: 343
Levels on recent surround releases are all over the place it seems. The other big example is Sgt Pepper which has rear channels about 6dB below the rest of the speakers.
sworth is online now  
post #41 of 65 Old 12-06-2017, 03:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
weekendtoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern MN
Posts: 1,183
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 497 Post(s)
Liked: 999
Ok, I bit the bullet and ordered this through importCDs using the TAKE10 promo code. Can't wait!

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

weekendtoy is offline  
post #42 of 65 Old 12-14-2017, 07:17 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,491
Mentioned: 174 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3538 Post(s)
Liked: 3060
Found this disc set at Best Buy buried in with the albums.

Surprised they had it. Not sure what the price was, it wasn't on the box.
Gooddoc is offline  
post #43 of 65 Old 12-15-2017, 07:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
weekendtoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern MN
Posts: 1,183
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 497 Post(s)
Liked: 999
Unbelievable surround mix!!!

I was a little underwhelmed with the INXS Atmos mix but this this disc has fully restored my faith in what an Atmos surround mix can bring to the table.

I listened to a few tracks off the original DVD-A in 5.1, then in 5.1 but up mixed to Atmos and then the same tracks with the new 25th anniversary disc mixed in Atmos.

Now the DVD-A was and still is a very good surround disc but compared to the Atmos disc, there is simply no comparison. I'm probably not going to explain this properly, but in many parts of the music you lose track of the surround mix because it comes across so enveloping. It's no longer just your left surround, but your left surround, left rear surround and left height speaker all joining together. Your living in a bubble of surround, that is all at once discrete but yet not, strangely all at the same time.
JJHXBR likes this.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

weekendtoy is offline  
post #44 of 65 Old 12-15-2017, 04:13 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hollywood, U.S.A.
Posts: 1,121
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 544 Post(s)
Liked: 343
The Atmos mix on Kraftwerk's Catalogue is phenomenal too.
weekendtoy and decibels like this.
sworth is online now  
post #45 of 65 Old 12-19-2017, 03:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,491
Mentioned: 174 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3538 Post(s)
Liked: 3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by weekendtoy View Post
Unbelievable surround mix!!!

I was a little underwhelmed with the INXS Atmos mix but this this disc has fully restored my faith in what an Atmos surround mix can bring to the table.

I listened to a few tracks off the original DVD-A in 5.1, then in 5.1 but up mixed to Atmos and then the same tracks with the new 25th anniversary disc mixed in Atmos.

Now the DVD-A was and still is a very good surround disc but compared to the Atmos disc, there is simply no comparison. I'm probably not going to explain this properly, but in many parts of the music you lose track of the surround mix because it comes across so enveloping. It's no longer just your left surround, but your left surround, left rear surround and left height speaker all joining together. Your living in a bubble of surround, that is all at once discrete but yet not, strangely all at the same time.
I didn't have the DVD-A mix to compare to, but your comments don't surprise me. The atmos mix and experience is simply far beyond any 5.1 mix I've ever heard. The "3rd dimension" of Atmos is more than just "more speakers". It involves the brain in a very different way. The additional volume(and I mean volume as in space, not dB) of Atmos makes it far more relaxing on the brain to follow different elements of the mix. That's the best way I can describe it.

In my opinion, Atmos is revolutionary, not evolutionary, for music.

Last edited by Gooddoc; 12-20-2017 at 11:36 AM.
Gooddoc is offline  
post #46 of 65 Old 02-05-2018, 09:54 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 2
The Atmos mix of this album is the best sounding surround music mix I've ever heard! I wish everything were this well done. Let's hope that Atmos mixes become a standard soon.
Gooddoc and IronWaffle like this.
GregL321 is offline  
post #47 of 65 Old 02-06-2018, 01:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hollywood, U.S.A.
Posts: 1,121
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 544 Post(s)
Liked: 343
Get it in the $30 range and I'll buy it.
sworth is online now  
post #48 of 65 Old 02-06-2018, 07:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,491
Mentioned: 174 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3538 Post(s)
Liked: 3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by sworth View Post
Get it in the $30 range and I'll buy it.
I paid $60 or so. But I've paid 5x less for albums that sucked 10x more. So I still feel like it was worth it.
Bill Mac and weekendtoy like this.
Gooddoc is offline  
post #49 of 65 Old 02-08-2018, 08:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Milt99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 5,734
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 407 Post(s)
Liked: 419
First off, old news.
REM fan from Chronic Town time.
Love this album.
Classic return to form.

Always been disappointed in the DVD-A from years ago.
The mixes & masters are great.
The digital transfer sucked hard.

Finally listened to the SDE BD.
Better in every way.
Not to pick the obvious but Man in the Moon just floats.

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

Milt99 is online now  
post #50 of 65 Old 02-12-2018, 08:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,491
Mentioned: 174 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3538 Post(s)
Liked: 3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
First off, old news.
REM fan from Chronic Town time.
Love this album.
Classic return to form.

Always been disappointed in the DVD-A from years ago.
The mixes & masters are great.
The digital transfer sucked hard.

Finally listened to the SDE BD.
Better in every way.
Not to pick the obvious but Man in the Moon just floats.
I got the BD part, but what is SDE?
Gooddoc is offline  
post #51 of 65 Old 02-12-2018, 08:17 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Milt99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 5,734
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 407 Post(s)
Liked: 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
I got the BD part, but what is SDE?
Super Deluxe Edition.
The set that included the Atmos Surround BD that came out most recently.
You don't need Atmos to play it.
The 2-channel is awesome as well.

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

Milt99 is online now  
post #52 of 65 Old 02-12-2018, 08:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,491
Mentioned: 174 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3538 Post(s)
Liked: 3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
Super Deluxe Edition.
The set that included the Atmos Surround BD that came out most recently.
You don't need Atmos to play it.
The 2-channel is awesome as well.
Ah, ok. Makes sense now .

"You don't need Atmos to play it." Oh, sir, you do . Now technically, yes, you're correct. But that is not taking into account how epic it is .
weekendtoy and sdrucker like this.
Gooddoc is offline  
post #53 of 65 Old 09-17-2018, 08:13 AM
Advanced Member
 
meli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ridgewood, NJ
Posts: 561
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 281 Post(s)
Liked: 73
I ripped the Atmos mix of "Automatic For The People" so I could play it via USB, but the album comes in as one large M2TS file. Does anyone know an easy way to edit the M2TS files into individual songs (and preserve the Atmos)?

Last edited by meli; 09-17-2018 at 08:51 AM.
meli is offline  
post #54 of 65 Old 09-17-2018, 12:09 PM
Newbie
 
MazingerZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Download (free) ffmpeg.
Below are the commands to extract the first two songs (just replace the drive / path locations).
It simply copies the tracks (there's no transcoding).

C:\apps\ffmpeg\bin\ffmpeg -i "D:\backup\R.E.M. - Automatic for the People\BDMV\STREAM\00002.m2ts" -map 0:0 -map 0:1 -c copy -ss 00:00:00.000 -to 00:04:31.000 "Drive.mkv"


C:\apps\ffmpeg\bin\ffmpeg -i "D:\backup\R.E.M. - Automatic for the People\BDMV\STREAM\00002.m2ts" -map 0:0 -map 0:1 -c copy -ss 00:04:31.271 -to 00:08:21.000 "Try Not To Breathe.mkv"


Below are the parameters used:
map 0:0 -- this will copy the video
map 0:1 -- this will copy track "#0:1 only, which is the TrueHD/Atmos track
-ss 00:00:00.000 -to 00:04:31.000 -- these are the start / end times that you want to extract
"Drive.mkv" -- output file
meli likes this.
MazingerZ is offline  
post #55 of 65 Old 09-17-2018, 10:22 PM
Advanced Member
 
meli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ridgewood, NJ
Posts: 561
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 281 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MazingerZ View Post
Download (free) ffmpeg.
Below are the commands to extract the first two songs (just replace the drive / path locations).
It simply copies the tracks (there's no transcoding).

C:\apps\ffmpeg\bin\ffmpeg -i "D:\backup\R.E.M. - Automatic for the People\BDMV\STREAM\00002.m2ts" -map 0:0 -map 0:1 -c copy -ss 00:00:00.000 -to 00:04:31.000 "Drive.mkv"...
Thanks, MazingerZ. I just tried this, but the resulting MKV file shows on my receiver as an 8 channel source, not Atmos.
Are you able to perform this and have the signal remain Atmos?

One other question, where do you get the start/end times so I can figure out what they are for the other tracks?

Thanks!
meli is offline  
post #56 of 65 Old 09-18-2018, 04:11 AM
Newbie
 
MazingerZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by meli View Post
Thanks, MazingerZ. I just tried this, but the resulting MKV file shows on my receiver as an 8 channel source, not Atmos.
Are you able to perform this and have the signal remain Atmos?

One other question, where do you get the start/end times so I can figure out what they are for the other tracks?

Thanks!

If I play the file using PowerDVD, VLC Media Player, or JRiver Media center, it shows "TrueHD" on the player.
And my PC is connected to a Denon Atmos receiver though HDMI, and it shows source = Atmos/TrueHD on the receiver.


I enabled the settings below in the media players.

PowerDVD (version 17)
---------------------------
Player Settings -> Video/Audio/Subtitles --> Audio -> More Audio Settings
Output mode: Non-decoded high-definition audio to external device


VLC Media player (version 3.03)
-------------------------------
Tools -> Preferences
HDMI/SPDIF audio passthrough: Enabled


JRiver Media Center (version 24)
-----------------------------
Options -> Settings
Bitstreaming, select/check the following
HDMI
Custom: Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, DTS-HD


-------------
CHAPTERS
------------

After ripping the disc to a Blu Ray folder using MakeMKV, I used Make MKV again to extract these 3 "Titles" from the ripped Blu Ray folder.
The output is 3 MKV files which contain chapters.
(1) R_E_M_-_Automatic_for_the_People_t00.mkv (All the songs, with a static video)
(2) R_E_M_-_Automatic_for_the_People_t01.mkv (Bonus tracks)
(3) R_E_M_-_Automatic_for_the_People_t00.mkv ("MTV" music videos)


If I use this ffmpeg command on the first title/file
ffmpeg -i "R_E_M_-_Automatic_for_the_People_t00.mkv"

it shows these chapters with the start/end times

Chapter #0:0: start 0.000000, end 271.271000
Metadata:
title : Chapter 01
Chapter #0:1: start 271.271000, end 501.501000
Metadata:
title : Chapter 02
Chapter #0:2: start 501.501000, end 750.750000
Metadata:
title : Chapter 03
Chapter #0:3: start 750.750000, end 1072.071000
Metadata:
title : Chapter 04
Chapter #0:4: start 1072.071000, end 1208.207000
Metadata:
title : Chapter 05
Chapter #0:5: start 1208.207000, end 1469.468000
Metadata:
title : Chapter 06
Chapter #0:6: start 1469.468000, end 1667.666000
Metadata:
title : Chapter 07
Chapter #0:7: start 1667.666000, end 1934.933000
Metadata:
title : Chapter 08
Chapter #0:8: start 1934.933000, end 2131.129000
Metadata:
title : Chapter 09
Chapter #0:9: start 2131.129000, end 2445.443000
Metadata:
title : Chapter 10
Chapter #0:10: start 2445.443000, end 2703.701000
Metadata:
title : Chapter 11
Chapter #0:11: start 2703.701000, end 2935.933000
Metadata:
title : Chapter 12
Chapter #0:12: start 2935.933000, end 2946.945000


Or if I play R_E_M_-_Automatic_for_the_People_t00.mkv using JRiver Media center, it shows these chapters and start times.

Chapter 01 00:00:00.000
Chapter 02 00:04:31.271
Chapter 03 00:08:21.501
Chapter 04 00:12:30.750
Chapter 05 00:17:52.071
Chapter 06 00:20:08.207
Chapter 07 00:24:29.468
Chapter 08 00:27:47.666
Chapter 09 00:32:14.933
Chapter 10 00:35:31.129
Chapter 11 00:40:45.443
Chapter 12 00:45:03.701
Chapter 13 00:48:55.933
meli likes this.
MazingerZ is offline  
post #57 of 65 Old 09-18-2018, 08:44 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Bill Mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 14,250
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2083 Post(s)
Liked: 2916
Yikes! I'll stick to just playing the discs. For my severely challenged computer skills it seems like quite a process to rip Blu-rays. Way over my head for sure!

Bill
weekendtoy likes this.

My SACD collection and HRAudio.net Library, getting larger as my wallet gets smaller ;-).

Emotiva XMC-1, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE (preamp), SX-500s, ST-500, ST-250, Oppo UDP-205 x 2, UDP-203, BDP-103, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk HT2-TLs, Salk 1801b center, Salk 1801TL (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
Bill Mac is offline  
post #58 of 65 Old 09-18-2018, 10:45 AM
Newbie
 
MazingerZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 13
meli, You did not specify what you're using to play the files - you only mentioned "via USB". For example if you're using the USB input of a Blu Ray player, it might support Atmos playback with M2TS files, but not with MKV files.
MazingerZ is offline  
post #59 of 65 Old 09-18-2018, 11:36 AM
Advanced Member
 
meli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ridgewood, NJ
Posts: 561
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 281 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MazingerZ View Post
meli, You did not specify what you're using to play the files - you only mentioned "via USB". For example if you're using the USB input of a Blu Ray player, it might support Atmos playback with M2TS files, but not with MKV files.
MazingerZ, thanks for all the help. I've been playing around with it more this morning and I may have discovered the problem. I'm using an Oppo 103 which may have some issues when playing back Atmos MKV files. I found this old post on the MKV board:

Oppo changed the way of playing TrueHD/Atmos in the new firmware. Formerly it was possible to play an Atmos track, even when there were some small issues at the beginning of a movie. But now, the Oppo's output rather PCM than Bitstream while playing an Atmos track, so no decoding in AVR is possible. Reason is a flaw in the Matroska container, because it doesn't include the Dolby Digital Core in a TrueHD track.

Solution is to mux with m2ts only (e.g. with tsMuxerGUI)... take the largest m2ts-file from a BDMV folder, choose the soundtracks and tick "m2ts-muxing"... that's it. Those files are not larger, than a comparable remuxed mkv. Oppo plays fine m2ts files either from USB or network share... Atmos is working again.


This explains a problem I had last year when the Atmos test tones, an MKV file I downloaded from Dolby, also did not play correctly.

So I tried muxing the R.E.M. M2TS file and it does indeed now play on my Oppo as Atmos. Yay! Now I just need to solve the problem of how to break it into chapters....

I took a look at MKVToolNix and don't understand it yet. One thing I'm unclear about is what order I should do things. Should I mux the entire file (the whole album as one track) first? And then use MKVTool to break it into chapters? Or should I break it into chapters first?

Thanks again for your help.
meli is offline  
post #60 of 65 Old 09-18-2018, 02:53 PM
Advanced Member
 
meli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ridgewood, NJ
Posts: 561
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 281 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MazingerZ View Post

Or if I play R_E_M_-_Automatic_for_the_People_t00.mkv using JRiver Media center, it shows these chapters and start times.

Chapter 01 00:00:00.000
Chapter 02 00:04:31.271
Chapter 03 00:08:21.501
Chapter 04 00:12:30.750
Chapter 05 00:17:52.071
Chapter 06 00:20:08.207
Chapter 07 00:24:29.468
Chapter 08 00:27:47.666
Chapter 09 00:32:14.933
Chapter 10 00:35:31.129
Chapter 11 00:40:45.443
Chapter 12 00:45:03.701
Chapter 13 00:48:55.933

Thank you so much, those numbers saved me a lot of time. Using tsMuxeR I was able to mux and break the tracks in one pass. Everything is working now on my Oppo, the tracks show up as Atmos. Thanks again.
meli is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Surround Music Formats



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off